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[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

Started by Josephus, March 22, 2011, 09:27:34 PM

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Josephus

CC...let's just leave it like this.

Say you and I are leaders of political parties. Say you lead party A and I lead Party B. Our parties have very little in common. WE are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I like squares, you like circles.  Now you say you are going to table a budget and you want my support. I say, "I doubt that can happen but look, if you throw in A, B and C, maybe I will."

But you, instead, only give me B-partially. That's not part of the deal. Yes, as you say, I didn't get everything. Why should I support you? I don't agree with you on anything else, but because you give me B, I should suddenly support you? You want me to support you. Give me what I want and I will.

You didn't.

Is Layton forcing the election? Depends on your point of view. The cynic in me thinks that the Cons. knew Layton wouldn't go for this (but offered a nice watered down version so that people like you think that Layton was wrong); and they actually want an election themselves, without seeming to want one; believing they stand a chance, not unjustifiably, of winning a majority.

That said, i agree with you, the NDP is not going to do well this election. I'm probably not voting for them so I don't care either.
Civis Romanus Sum

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." Jack Layton 1950-2011

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Jacob on March 23, 2011, 07:18:32 PM
Nah, he was an academic in the US for years. You know, he had some career and academic success and went to where the best opportunities were. According to the attack ad, that makes him suspect.
I think in Apartheid South Africa they called that "the chicken run."  : :P

Neil

Quote from: Jacob on March 23, 2011, 06:17:23 PM
Quote from: Neil on March 23, 2011, 06:05:30 PMWell, stop stealing islands then.
What I meant by that was not "the Danish part of the family" but "it's my family, which part isn't relevant."
Of course it is.  Just because they let you in doesn't mean they have to let everyone you know in.  Especially when your wife's family comes from our most powerful enemy, which is known to make extremely heavy use of spies via immigrants.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

viper37

Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 23, 2011, 06:32:29 PM
What's the basis for the attack ad? 
Canadians are touchy about Americans. 
It used to be Harper=American=Bad.  Now, the Conservatives Strikes Back.  Ignatieff=American=Just as bad.

It's just like in the US when the Republicans paint the Democrats as being Canadians.  The other country is always evil and we should not importe their strange ways in our lands ;)
I don't do meditation.<br />I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Neil

Quote from: Grey Fox on March 23, 2011, 07:17:27 PM
He's the leader of an opposition party, that's what he's suppose to do. If Harper wants to in power, he should bend.
Except Harper's likely going to win this election, and we're going to be in the same boat a year from now.  Ever election the opposition subjects us to will only strengthen Harper's hand.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

viper37

#65
Quote from: Josephus on March 23, 2011, 04:41:55 PM
He wanted ending the federal sales tax on home heating fuels and restoring the home energy retrofit tax incentive, he got only the latter.

that one, you have to admit is quite silly.

First, the NDP blames the government for not doing enough (doing nothing actually) to fight global warming.
Then, it wants a tax credit on heating oil, wich means he wants more pollution instead of pushing people and corporations toward other sources of energy. 

Plus, the NDP was favorable to a carbon tax, as proposed by Dion.  Now it wants to lower tax on an highly polluting source of energy.  Can you say flip flop?
I don't do meditation.<br />I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Grey Fox

Yep.

Stupid Liberal party. Get your shit straight, so we can avoid a majority cons ffs.
Colonel Caliga is Awesome.

dps

Quote from: viper37 on March 23, 2011, 07:44:40 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 23, 2011, 06:32:29 PM
What's the basis for the attack ad? 
Canadians are touchy about Americans. 
It used to be Harper=American=Bad.  Now, the Conservatives Strikes Back.  Ignatieff=American=Just as bad.

It's just like in the US when the Republicans paint the Democrats as being Canadians.  The other country is always evil and we should not importe their strange ways in our lands ;)

I don't think I've ever heard Republicans call Democrats Canadians.  They used to call them Russkies a lot, but now they also call some of them (OK, really just one of them) Nigerian or Indonesian as well.

Barrister

Quote from: Josephus on March 23, 2011, 07:23:23 PM
CC...let's just leave it like this.

Say you and I are leaders of political parties. Say you lead party A and I lead Party B. Our parties have very little in common. WE are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I like squares, you like circles.  Now you say you are going to table a budget and you want my support. I say, "I doubt that can happen but look, if you throw in A, B and C, maybe I will."

But you, instead, only give me B-partially. That's not part of the deal. Yes, as you say, I didn't get everything. Why should I support you? I don't agree with you on anything else, but because you give me B, I should suddenly support you? You want me to support you. Give me what I want and I will.

You didn't.

Is Layton forcing the election? Depends on your point of view. The cynic in me thinks that the Cons. knew Layton wouldn't go for this (but offered a nice watered down version so that people like you think that Layton was wrong); and they actually want an election themselves, without seeming to want one; believing they stand a chance, not unjustifiably, of winning a majority.

That said, i agree with you, the NDP is not going to do well this election. I'm probably not voting for them so I don't care either.

In negotiating, you always have to ask yourself what is the alternative to a negotiated settlement.

For the NDP, the alternative is to get destroyed in an election.

So yes, I would imagine that the NDP should take a few partial successes, declare it a win and call it a day.

But whatever - it's not like I'm personally afraid of an election.  Elections are fun.  I just regret my vote will be in Alberta, not somewhere useful like Yukon.
Quote from: crazy canuckBB's treatment is consistent with one who defends positions taken by the conservative wing of the Conservatives.

Josephus

If you move to Neil's riding you can try prevent the NDP from winning there, BB. ;)
Civis Romanus Sum

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." Jack Layton 1950-2011

viper37

Quote from: dps on March 23, 2011, 07:55:37 PM

I don't think I've ever heard Republicans call Democrats Canadians.  They used to call them Russkies a lot, but now they also call some of them (OK, really just one of them) Nigerian or Indonesian as well.
they usually say they want to mimick Canada.
Bush did it in his 2000 campaigne ("He wants Canada!"  -shock&horror from the crowd ;) ) and the Tea Partyers/GOP are also using that line for the health care reform.
I don't do meditation.<br />I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

viper37

Quote from: Barrister on March 23, 2011, 09:04:46 PM
But whatever - it's not like I'm personally afraid of an election.  Elections are fun.  I just regret my vote will be in Alberta, not somewhere useful like Yukon.
If my MP sends me 8 pre-recorded phone message asking me to vote for him, not only will I not vote for him, but I swear I'll destroy every single phones in campaign hq with a baseball bat until there are only tiny pieces left.
I don't do meditation.<br />I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Neil

Quote from: Josephus on March 23, 2011, 09:25:30 PM
If you move to Neil's riding you can try prevent the NDP from winning there, BB. ;)
He's farther south I believe.

At any rate, the Liberals will take the NDP out of my riding with a split vote, allowing the Tories to win again.  The only reason the NDP won is because Dion was so terrible and the local candidate so lackluster.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

crazy canuck

Quote from: Grey Fox on March 23, 2011, 07:17:27 PM
He's the leader of an opposition party, that's what he's suppose to do. If Harper wants to in power, he should bend.

If your theory of minority government budgets was correct we would go to the polls everytime the finance minister didnt give the opposition parties everything they wanted.

If layton wants to call all the shots he needs to win a majority government and of course that will never happen.
I want you to panic

https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2019/jan/25/i-want-you-to-panic-16-year-old-greta-thunberg-issues-climate-warning-at-davos-video

"Woke" is now almost exclusively used by those who seek to deride it, those who chafe at the activism from which it sprang. Opponents to the idea are seeking to render it toxic. They use it to stand in for change itself, for evolution, for an accurate assessment of history and society that makes them uncomfortable and deflates their hagiographic view of American history.

crazy canuck

Quote from: Jacob on March 23, 2011, 07:19:35 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 23, 2011, 07:07:28 PMIf Jacobs real beef is that the conservatives are running attack adds then he should vote for the party that runs no attack adds.  I think he will find himself without a vote.

That's not my beef. My beef is that the ad was insipid and that it was everywhere. It was annoying.

I don't have a vote anyhow, not a citizen  :P

I was right.  You find yourself without a vote. :D
I want you to panic

https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2019/jan/25/i-want-you-to-panic-16-year-old-greta-thunberg-issues-climate-warning-at-davos-video

"Woke" is now almost exclusively used by those who seek to deride it, those who chafe at the activism from which it sprang. Opponents to the idea are seeking to render it toxic. They use it to stand in for change itself, for evolution, for an accurate assessment of history and society that makes them uncomfortable and deflates their hagiographic view of American history.