[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Neil]

Well, assuming Toronto is facing a fiscal shortfall (which makes sense, since most cities are having problems making ends meet), then I would think Chow would be better qualified to lead a mission to get some money out of the province.  The Liberals hate Ford, and Chow has the whole 'Holy Widow of St. Jack' thing going for her.  Although Chow makes it more difficult to get federal money, the province is more lucrative anyways.

[viper37]

Seems the PQ separatist dream is long on passion and a bit short on economic reality.

It's Marois you're talking about.  I think the zombies of walking dead have more brain than she has.

What she describes as the "independant quebec dream", we already have most of that with Canada.  She wants to scrap it to remake it exactly the same.  Silly.

[Jacob]

So with Chow, it's basically a coalescing of an everyone-but-Ford coalition, selling her as reasonable to most people? NDP types, Liberals, and more cosmopolitan and/or severely-embarrassed-by-Ford Conservatives?

[crazy canuck]

So with Chow, it's basically a coalescing of an everyone-but-Ford coalition, selling her as reasonable to most people? NDP types, Liberals, and more cosmopolitan and/or severely-embarrassed-by-Ford Conservatives?

If it was that then Kinsella wouldnt have to be involved - ie it would be a cake walk for Chow.  I think the reason he is involved is that Tory has a real chance to attract the centre and centre right vote giving him the victory.  As stated before, that would be the Liberal's worst nightmare.

[Barrister]

So with Chow, it's basically a coalescing of an everyone-but-Ford coalition, selling her as reasonable to most people? NDP types, Liberals, and more cosmopolitan and/or severely-embarrassed-by-Ford Conservatives?

Well that's what Chow would like it to be.

[Jacob]

So with Chow, it's basically a coalescing of an everyone-but-Ford coalition, selling her as reasonable to most people? NDP types, Liberals, and more cosmopolitan and/or severely-embarrassed-by-Ford Conservatives?

Well that's what Chow would like it to be.

Yeah, that's what I meant. That's her and Kinsella's angle.

[Neil]

Have we seen any polling yet?  If Ford's voters transfer their loyalty to Tory, then that would be something for the Liberals to be concerned about.

[crazy canuck]

Have we seen any polling yet?  If Ford's voters transfer their loyalty to Tory, then that would be something for the Liberals to be concerned about.

Tory is a sophisticated* Conservative who could rebuild the base of the party in the Toronto area.  Nobody worried about Ford for good reason.

*Granted the bar in Toronto politics is pretty low these days.

[Neil]

Have we seen any polling yet?  If Ford's voters transfer their loyalty to Tory, then that would be something for the Liberals to be concerned about.

Tory is a sophisticated* Conservative who could rebuild the base of the party in the Toronto area.  Nobody worried about Ford for good reason.

*Granted the bar in Toronto politics is pretty low these days.

That's exactly what I was thinking.  Tory's the kind of guy who could build a machine.  Even at his best, Ford was still an emotional choice, just running around and doing things without any kind of a plan.  The only reason he was so successful was because the establishment left had failed Toronto so badly.

[Barrister]

Have we seen any polling yet?  If Ford's voters transfer their loyalty to Tory, then that would be something for the Liberals to be concerned about.

Tory is a sophisticated Conservative who could rebuild the base of the party in the Toronto area.  Nobody worried about Ford for good reason.

John Tory is a dismal politician who's never won a major election.  Let's see...

-he was the campaign manager for Kim Campbell in 1993 - and lost in an epic fashion
-he ran for mayor in 2003 - and lost
-he became leader of the Ontario PC Party, and got into the legislature in a safe seat
-ran for Premier in 2007 - and lost both the election, and his own seat
-convinced a colleague to resign so he could run in a by-election, - and lost again!

It's very unfortunate for right-of-centre supporters is John Tory is their standard-bearer.  Now I have nothing against the man personally, or politically, but his record speaks for itself.

[crazy canuck]

Have we seen any polling yet?  If Ford's voters transfer their loyalty to Tory, then that would be something for the Liberals to be concerned about.

Tory is a sophisticated Conservative who could rebuild the base of the party in the Toronto area.  Nobody worried about Ford for good reason.

John Tory is a dismal politician who's never won a major election.  Let's see...

-he was the campaign manager for Kim Campbell in 1993 - and lost in an epic fashion
-he ran for mayor in 2003 - and lost
-he became leader of the Ontario PC Party, and got into the legislature in a safe seat
-ran for Premier in 2007 - and lost both the election, and his own seat
-convinced a colleague to resign so he could run in a by-election, - and lost again!

It's very unfortunate for right-of-centre supporters is John Tory is their standard-bearer.  Now I have nothing against the man personally, or politically, but his record speaks for itself.

Your Reform roots are showing again. 

[Neil]

I'm sure there are a lot of qualified, smart people who tried to carry on the fight in Ontario during the time between when the Progressive Conservatives fell apart in 1993 and when the Western conservative movement matured enough to get Harper into power.  I don't hold it against them that they were on the wrong side of electoral math.  The last two lines are certainly troubling, but the rest of it is pretty benign.

[Barrister]

Have we seen any polling yet?  If Ford's voters transfer their loyalty to Tory, then that would be something for the Liberals to be concerned about.

Tory is a sophisticated Conservative who could rebuild the base of the party in the Toronto area.  Nobody worried about Ford for good reason.

John Tory is a dismal politician who's never won a major election.  Let's see...

-he was the campaign manager for Kim Campbell in 1993 - and lost in an epic fashion
-he ran for mayor in 2003 - and lost
-he became leader of the Ontario PC Party, and got into the legislature in a safe seat
-ran for Premier in 2007 - and lost both the election, and his own seat
-convinced a colleague to resign so he could run in a by-election, - and lost again!

It's very unfortunate for right-of-centre supporters is John Tory is their standard-bearer.  Now I have nothing against the man personally, or politically, but his record speaks for itself.

Your Reform roots are showing again.

It has nothing to do with "Reform roots".  That war is long over, and both sides now happily work together.  I certainly do think of Tory as being on "my team", and I don't dislike the man.

It's just that John Tory has no history of electoral success at any level.  The man has never won an election at any level, including the last time he ran for Mayor of Toronto.

[crazy canuck]

It has nothing to do with "Reform roots".

It is odd then that you would refer to electoral failures of Conservative candidates that where directly impacted by the Reform party siphoning off votes and completely ignoring that effect on vote outcome in your criticism of this candidate.

[Neil]

It has nothing to do with "Reform roots".

It is odd then that you would refer to electoral failures of Conservative candidates that where directly impacted by the Reform party siphoning off votes and completely ignoring that effect on vote outcome in your criticism of this candidate.

I don't think that the Reform was running in the Ontario provincial elections or the Toronto mayoral race.  The collapse of Mike Harris' government was probably a bigger factor in terms of damaging the Tory brand.