[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Barrister]

The benefit of having somebody who has had significant managerial responsibilities outside of government is that we have a sense of how he will do things.

From the reporting in the globe regarding his management style, we know a couple of things. First, he demands excellence from those who are reporting to him, and he requires that people come to meetings with their own ideas and solutions to the issues of the day so that they can be debated and a way forward is decided.

That is a very different model from ministers showing up to cabinet meetings to be told what they are going to do, which was the PMO governance model under Trudeau.

Well if the G&M says so...

[Jacob]

1. The trend of centralizing power within the PMO goes back decades.  Trudeau, Harper, Chretien - I think at least Mulroney (Trudeau Sr is before my time).  So I find CC's assertion this will be reversed under Carney to be delightfully naïve just on the basis of history.

2. But more than that - Justin Trudeau's senior advisors are Mark Carney's senior advisors!  Gerald Butts and Katie Telford are right there alongside Carney.  The cabinet shuffle itself does nothing to suggest to me that Carney is anything other than a minor change from the Trudeau Liberal government before it.

Sounds like we'd probably see the same under a future/ hypothetical Poilievre (or other CPC leader) government then. Thanks.

As for how different Carney will be, we'll see. Politically I guess the question is whether the differences - whatever they end up being - address the things (whatever they were) that lead to Trudeau fatigue.

[Barrister]

Sounds like we'd probably see the same under a future/ hypothetical Poiliever (or other CPC leader) government then. Thanks.

I didn't think what I was saying needed to be spelled out so obviously.

But if it did, then thank you.

I am a Conservative partisan, but hardly a paid shill. 

[crazy canuck]

The benefit of having somebody who has had significant managerial responsibilities outside of government is that we have a sense of how he will do things.

From the reporting in the globe regarding his management style, we know a couple of things. First, he demands excellence from those who are reporting to him, and he requires that people come to meetings with their own ideas and solutions to the issues of the day so that they can be debated and a way forward is decided.

That is a very different model from ministers showing up to cabinet meetings to be told what they are going to do, which was the PMO governance model under Trudeau.

Well if the G&M says so...

Perhaps a better source of information than a self declared partisan and unpaid shill.

[Jacob]

Maybe it's a style thing? In conversation I often repeat back my conversation partner's points to demonstrate (to both them and myself) that I've understood them and to mutually confirm that we are in agreement; and potentially to ensure there's no subtle nuance being lost.

It was not a gotcha.

[Josephus]

BB do you expect Conservatives will reverse the trend to centralize power in the PMO if they come to power, or do you think the trend will hold across political lines?

1. The trend of centralizing power within the PMO goes back decades.  Trudeau, Harper, Chretien - I think at least Mulroney (Trudeau Sr is before my time).  So I find CC's assertion this will be reversed under Carney to be delightfully naïve just on the basis of history.

2. But more than that - Justin Trudeau's senior advisors are Mark Carney's senior advisors!  Gerald Butts and Katie Telford are right there alongside Carney.  The cabinet shuffle itself does nothing to suggest to me that Carney is anything other than a minor change from the Trudeau Liberal government before it.

One wouldn't expect a rookie prime minister— a rookie politician at that— to surround himself with a rookie backroom. He needs experience in the PMO. He will be different than Trudeau, though.
Just watch him

[HVC]

BB do you expect Conservatives will reverse the trend to centralize power in the PMO if they come to power, or do you think the trend will hold across political lines?

1. The trend of centralizing power within the PMO goes back decades.  Trudeau, Harper, Chretien - I think at least Mulroney (Trudeau Sr is before my time).  So I find CC's assertion this will be reversed under Carney to be delightfully naïve just on the basis of history.

2. But more than that - Justin Trudeau's senior advisors are Mark Carney's senior advisors!  Gerald Butts and Katie Telford are right there alongside Carney.  The cabinet shuffle itself does nothing to suggest to me that Carney is anything other than a minor change from the Trudeau Liberal government before it.

One wouldn't expect a rookie prime minister— a rookie politician at that— to surround himself with a rookie backroom. He needs experience in the PMO. He will be different than Trudeau, though.
Just watch him

A NDP Lifer backing a business man/banker PM? Well I'll be. Almost as shocking as Viper turning liberal

[Barrister]

BB do you expect Conservatives will reverse the trend to centralize power in the PMO if they come to power, or do you think the trend will hold across political lines?

1. The trend of centralizing power within the PMO goes back decades.  Trudeau, Harper, Chretien - I think at least Mulroney (Trudeau Sr is before my time).  So I find CC's assertion this will be reversed under Carney to be delightfully naïve just on the basis of history.

2. But more than that - Justin Trudeau's senior advisors are Mark Carney's senior advisors!  Gerald Butts and Katie Telford are right there alongside Carney.  The cabinet shuffle itself does nothing to suggest to me that Carney is anything other than a minor change from the Trudeau Liberal government before it.

One wouldn't expect a rookie prime minister— a rookie politician at that— to surround himself with a rookie backroom. He needs experience in the PMO. He will be different than Trudeau, though.
Just watch him

Obviously he'll be different than J Trudeau.  He's a different person.

But come on - to call him a "rookie politician".  Both in the UK and Canada he's been very familiar with the political process.  Plus, and I hate to repeat myself, but his principal advisors are the same ones as J Trudeau.

[Bauer]

The thing Carney has going for him is experience overseeing and managing complicated positions.  He has been saying the right things to give me confidence he's someone who knows how to manage others and get the most out of them, and I believe he is the right candidate to do that.

Whether that actually translates to decentralizing the PMO and getting results out of the cabinet remains to be seen. If it doesn't I wonder if it's because of the cabinet members themselves, or because of deeply engrained processes/practises. I don't know how the government actually works in that respect to have an opinion so I shall wait and see.  In business a CEO sets their agenda and then delegates objectives down, tracks progress, holds them accountable etc.  presumably a PM should be doing that as well.  Not sure why PMO decision making was becoming so centralized to begin with, but that's often a sign of an incompetent manager.

[viper37]

Almost as shocking as Viper turning liberal

And I will forever blame PP for disgusting me of the party. 
If the Conservatives becomes again Conservatives instead of imitating Maxime Bernier's party, I might reconsider my stance.

[Josephus]

A NDP Lifer backing a business man/banker PM? Well I'll be. Almost as shocking as Viper turning liberal

Not so much backing him as just stating why I thought he kept some of JT's staff around.

[Josephus]

So remember that Quebec riding where, after a recount, the Liberal won over the BQ candidate by ONE vote? Turns out one person who voted for BQ by mail had their vote "returned to sender" because the postal code on the label was wrong.

[HVC]

So does that vote still count? What happens in a tie? Duel?

[Grey Fox]

So does that vote still count? What happens in a tie? Duel?

Doesn't count.

Ties are resolved by a coin flip. It happened in a riding for 2003's Quebec election. The winner resigned and a by-election was called.

[crazy canuck]

The resurgence of measles in Canada. Ontario now has more cases than all of the US.

 https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/front-burner/id1439621628?i=1000708702595