[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[viper37]

Wouldn't 'Laurentian elite' be a term that could be substituted for 'the swamp' without making CC unreasonably angry and afraid?  'The swamp' seems to be pretty much the same term, just more loaded with negativity. 

Of course it can.  I've even used the phrase several times.

They're old money, often tracing roots to the beginning of the Confederation or even before, to the merger of Lower and Upper Canada.

They don't want their priviledges to go away, just as the West doesn't want to hear anything about cutting its carbon emissions because its seen as attacking its wealth.

[crazy canuck]

Wouldn't 'Laurentian elite' be a term that could be substituted for 'the swamp' without making CC unreasonably angry and afraid?  'The swamp' seems to be pretty much the same term, just more loaded with negativity. 

One could use that term.  If they wanted to sound hopelessly out of date 

[crazy canuck]

BB, I honestly don't follow your argument.  Harvard and Oxford are very rare as schools our politicians and senior civil servants attend. Your list proves the point.

And by the way, Oxford is hardly a sign of being a member of the "swamp".  You might not be aware of this but being a Rhodes Scholar has been a viable way for Canadian kids in smaller communities to get to Oxford.  The criteria are sports, community involvement and to some extent grades. Things small town kids can achieve and even excel at.

Two.

Things.

Can.

Be.

True.

At.

Once.

Yes, and for something to be true, it sort of has to, you know, be true.

[Barrister]

Wouldn't 'Laurentian elite' be a term that could be substituted for 'the swamp' without making CC unreasonably angry and afraid?  'The swamp' seems to be pretty much the same term, just more loaded with negativity. 

Of course it can.  I've even used the phrase several times.

They're old money, often tracing roots to the beginning of the Confederation or even before, to the merger of Lower and Upper Canada.

They don't want their priviledges to go away, just as the West doesn't want to hear anything about cutting its carbon emissions because its seen as attacking its wealth.

I think that's far too narrow a definition.

I've frequently mentioned Power Corp/Desmarais family.  I don't think they go back anywhere near that far - at least in terms of power and wealth.

Which is why just because you're incredibly smart and coming from a small town doesn't mean you can't join the "Laurentian elite".  The "Laurentian elite' welcome you in because you're smart and talented - you just then have to adopt a certain set of values and beliefs.  They then can assist you in various pursuits of wealth and power.

[Barrister]

So a different term that can also get used - "globalist".

A figure like Mark Carney is a perfect example of a "globalist".  Educated around the world, a board member of the World Economic Forum (and attendee at Davos) - his future is not entirely tied to Canada.  And of course - Governor of the Bank of England.

That's not to say that Canadians must stay home in Canada and not leave.  I congratulate Mark Carney on his success in life.  But the "globalist" priorities are somewhat different than someone who has lived their life in Edmonton, or Saint John, or Prince Rupert.

But I've resisted "globalist", and probably won't use it again - because certain segments online use it as a code word for "Jew".

And now I wonder if certain posters are going to call me an anti-semite.  And even if they don't - it's how it works in the real world.  People argue with the label or word choice - not the sentiment unerlying it.

[Sheilbh]

But I've resisted "globalist", and probably won't use it again - because certain segments online use it as a code word for "Jew".

Something I think Quinn Slobodian, author of the fantastic Globalists: The End of Empire and the Birth of Neoliberalism, must have to grapple with on a regular basis.

His title absolutely works - but can't help but wonder if it was worth the trouble in retrospect.

[crazy canuck]

Let me get this straight, the argument is that because a person has vast experience both within and outside Canada, that person necessarily cannot have priorities that are important to Canadians.

You are really reaching now BB.

[viper37]

I think that's far too narrow a definition.

I've frequently mentioned Power Corp/Desmarais family.  I don't think they go back anywhere near that far - at least in terms of power and wealth.

Which is why just because you're incredibly smart and coming from a small town doesn't mean you can't join the "Laurentian elite".  The "Laurentian elite' welcome you in because you're smart and talented - you just then have to adopt a certain set of values and beliefs.  They then can assist you in various pursuits of wealth and power.

The elder Desmarais, now dead, bought a Federal government company for 1$ that he turned into his first "gold mine".

But his family was involved in Ontario politics, his grandfather founded the city of Noëlville, his brothers were involved in Federal politics and in business before him.

He bought his near bankrupt father's company for 1$, and while I can't find the reference now (it seems to have been scrubbed from Wikipedia), I'm certain he was granted exclusive contracts for his buslines by the Ontario government, with his family connections.  He then bought other bus lines in Ottawa and Quebec.

His real money from his stock swap with Power Corporation, founded in 1925 by Arthur J. Nestbitt  and Peter A.T. Thompson. Nesbitt founded his own stock brocking firm, later acquired by BMO.


So... you can definitely trace the roots of his wealth to old money and influential family politics.  He worked hard, but he had the right connections.

[Barrister]

I think that's far too narrow a definition.

I've frequently mentioned Power Corp/Desmarais family.  I don't think they go back anywhere near that far - at least in terms of power and wealth.

Which is why just because you're incredibly smart and coming from a small town doesn't mean you can't join the "Laurentian elite".  The "Laurentian elite' welcome you in because you're smart and talented - you just then have to adopt a certain set of values and beliefs.  They then can assist you in various pursuits of wealth and power.

The elder Desmarais, now dead, bought a Federal government company for 1$ that he turned into his first "gold mine".

But his family was involved in Ontario politics, his grandfather founded the city of Noëlville, his brothers were involved in Federal politics and in business before him.

He bought his near bankrupt father's company for 1$, and while I can't find the reference now (it seems to have been scrubbed from Wikipedia), I'm certain he was granted exclusive contracts for his buslines by the Ontario government, with his family connections.  He then bought other bus lines in Ottawa and Quebec.

His real money from his stock swap with Power Corporation, founded in 1925 by Arthur J. Nestbitt  and Peter A.T. Thompson. Nesbitt founded his own stock brocking firm, later acquired by BMO.


So... you can definitely trace the roots of his wealth to old money and influential family politics.  He worked hard, but he had the right connections.

Yes - but the Act of Union which merged Upper and Lower Canada was in 1840.  That's still generations earlier.

I'm not saying that the Desmarais don't go back a long long time though - just not 1840s (as far as I know).

[viper37]

So a different term that can also get used - "globalist".
A figure like Mark Carney is a perfect example of a "globalist".  Educated around the world, a board member of the World Economic Forum (and attendee at Davos) - his future is not entirely tied to Canada.  And of course - Governor of the Bank of England.
That's not to say that Canadians must stay home in Canada and not leave.  I congratulate Mark Carney on his success in life.  But the "globalist" priorities are somewhat different than someone who has lived their life in Edmonton, or Saint John, or Prince Rupert.
But I've resisted "globalist", and probably won't use it again - because certain segments online use it as a code word for "Jew".
And now I wonder if certain posters are going to call me an anti-semite.  And even if they don't - it's how it works in the real world.  People argue with the label or word choice - not the sentiment unerlying it.

Globalist has been used as a pejorative in right-wing and far-right politics, and in various conspiracy theories. During the election and presidency of United States president Donald Trump, he and members of his administration used the term globalist on multiple occasions.^[32][33] The administration was accused of using the term as an antisemitic dog whistle,^[34] and to associate their critics with a Jewish conspiracy.^[5][35][36] Followers of the QAnon conspiracy theory refer to what they term "the Cabal" as a secret worldwide elite organisation who wish to undermine democracy and freedom, and implement their own globalist agendas.^[37] Hungary's prime minister Viktor Orbán has used antisemitic tropes in accusations against globalists, espousing a conspiracy theory of a world network controlled by Hungarian-American philanthropist George Soros.^[38][39]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalism


The best definition in political science is here:
Political scientists Joseph Nye and Robert Keohane, major thinkers of liberal institutionalism as a new international relations theory, generalized the term to argue that globalism refers to any description and explanation of a world which is characterized by networks of connections that span multi-continental distances, while globalization refers to the increase or decline in the degree of globalism.


And there's nothing wrong with it.  Wealth flows from commerce.  What is Alberta's wealth when it's oil is for domestic consumption only?  Same with Quebec's electricity.  We live in a global world where we import and export, and it's not exactly a recent innovation.  Antique civilizations traded with one another, the Romans had an extensive trade network on land and on sea reaching as far as India.  They did not rely solely on what was produced in Italy.

[viper37]

I think that's far too narrow a definition.

I've frequently mentioned Power Corp/Desmarais family.  I don't think they go back anywhere near that far - at least in terms of power and wealth.

Which is why just because you're incredibly smart and coming from a small town doesn't mean you can't join the "Laurentian elite".  The "Laurentian elite' welcome you in because you're smart and talented - you just then have to adopt a certain set of values and beliefs.  They then can assist you in various pursuits of wealth and power.

The elder Desmarais, now dead, bought a Federal government company for 1$ that he turned into his first "gold mine".

But his family was involved in Ontario politics, his grandfather founded the city of Noëlville, his brothers were involved in Federal politics and in business before him.

He bought his near bankrupt father's company for 1$, and while I can't find the reference now (it seems to have been scrubbed from Wikipedia), I'm certain he was granted exclusive contracts for his buslines by the Ontario government, with his family connections.  He then bought other bus lines in Ottawa and Quebec.

His real money from his stock swap with Power Corporation, founded in 1925 by Arthur J. Nestbitt  and Peter A.T. Thompson. Nesbitt founded his own stock brocking firm, later acquired by BMO.


So... you can definitely trace the roots of his wealth to old money and influential family politics.  He worked hard, but he had the right connections.

Yes - but the Act of Union which merged Upper and Lower Canada was in 1840.  That's still generations earlier.

I'm not saying that the Desmarais don't go back a long long time though - just not 1840s (as far as I know).

Well, they're not alone in the Laurentian Elite, and I said it dated to the formation of Canada, sometimes earlier up to the Act of Union.  I haven't checked each and everyone of these rich families.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurentian_elite