[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Barrister]

Masculine Pascale is Pascal.

OK.

Doesn't detract from my overall hypothetical point.  Ms. St. Onge was being a dick if she deliberately switched to French just because she didn't like the questioner.

[Grey Fox]

Yes. It's our MPs, most of the time they are petty at each other.

St-Onge's spoken english is really bad.

[garbon]

Missed it the first time.

Apparently this MP has a habit of francophobia and Quebec bashing and that might explain why St-Onge answered her in French on purpose. 

OK, so I have not seen the entire Parliamentary Committee, so I don't know the entire transaction.

*IF* Minister St. Onge was speaking entirely in English during the committee meeting, and switched to French just because he doesn't like Rachael Thomas... then St. Onge my friends was being a dick.

???

My mistake.  I saw the name Pascale St. Onge and thought Pascale was a male name.  I'm not familiar with this person.

It does suggest both of you might just be arguing from your biases if you don't know basics about the incident.

[Barrister]

It does suggest both of you might just be arguing from your biases if you don't know basics about the incident.

I don't know what to tell you - I made it clear that I was arguing a, not quite a hypothetical, but from one possible interpretation of events, and that I didn't fully know what happened (and indeed it's almost impossible to tell someone's motivation for doing almost anything).

[Zoupa]

This Rachael Thomas is the same conservative moron who promised to make the job of the Heritage Committee "hell". I guess she's a woman of her word.

Btw all participants have access to instantaneous translation via earpiece so her assertion that "In response, Thomas said she was not provided the "opportunity" to receive an English answer and asked again if St-Onge "would be willing to answer in English" is complete bullshit.

[Barrister]

This Rachael Thomas is the same conservative moron who promised to make the job of the Heritage Committee "hell". I guess she's a woman of her word.

Btw all participants have access to instantaneous translation via earpiece so her assertion that "In response, Thomas said she was not provided the "opportunity" to receive an English answer and asked again if St-Onge "would be willing to answer in English" is complete bullshit.

Having worked with enough translators over the years something is almost invariably lost in the act of translation by a third party.

I just don't get the outrage at what is clearly and obviously a request, not a demand.

Just a couple of courtroom examples.  Last week before court the word came out that the judge was requesting, but not ordering, everyone present to wear a mask.  I was like "sure" and put on a mask.  Many others present did not.  Nothing more was said of it.  Or just yesterday I was about to have a child testify in a sex assault case, when about 20 or so adults come walking in wanting to watch a trial (they were students at some kind of class or program).  I explained to them that it is an open courtroom, they were entitled to watch, but that I respectfully asked them to find a different trial to watch given the kind of case and the age of the witness.  They all said "of course" and found a different trial to watch.

[Zoupa]

Why don't Ukrainians just speak Russian? I just don't get the outrage.

[Barrister]

Why don't Ukrainians just speak Russian? I just don't get the outrage.

It all depends on context.  I'm sure most Ukrainians (who almost all can speak Russian anyways) would have no problem speaking in Russian in some circumstances.

The problem with Russians is they don't politely ask - they demand that everyone speak Russian.  Which I totally understand why that would stick in anyone's craw (and the same goes for someone demanding a francophone speak English).

[Zoupa]

So you DO understand why that'd would stick in francophone's craw then? Because demanding that a francophone speak english is exactly what happened here.

[Barrister]

So you DO understand why that'd would stick in francophone's craw then? Because demanding that a francophone speak english is exactly what happened here.

Minister, I noticed that you answered my questions in French, but other questions you answered in English if they're from your Liberal colleagues. I realize it's completely your choice, we're a bilingual country, but if at all possible I'd love to have an English answer.

I can't agree with your characterization here.

[Jacob]

This Rachael Thomas is the same conservative moron who promised to make the job of the Heritage Committee "hell". I guess she's a woman of her word.

... yeah, it sounds to me that this was part of the petty needling back and forth that is also part of our parliamentary democracy and that Thomas messed up by crossing some lines she shouldn't have.

I do see the point that if St-Onge has spoken comfortably* in English to everyone else, then switching to French is a bit of a jerk move - especially if there's no other context involved.

But the thing is, "a bit of jerk move" as part of the usual parliamentary posture games is orders of magnitude less significant than questioning the bilingual foundation of our country even implicitly. So even if it was just contextless needling by St-Onge, Thomas still fucked up (and she knows it, as evidenced by her immediate apology).

Now if there's additional context (and there usually is), that changes things. If, for example (and this is speculation, the context could be different) Thomas has form for needling Francophone members of the committee and push for all business to be conducted in English then it's perfectly reasonable (and not jerky) for St-Onge to make a deliberate point by speaking in the official language that is not English.

(*but Grey Wolf - who I think is in a better position to know - says that her English is not that amazing, so that's what I'll tend to believe)

[Zoupa]

So you DO understand why that'd would stick in francophone's craw then? Because demanding that a francophone speak english is exactly what happened here.

Minister, I noticed that you answered my questions in French, but other questions you answered in English if they're from your Liberal colleagues. I realize it's completely your choice, we're a bilingual country, but if at all possible I'd love to have an English answer.

I can't agree with your characterization here.

So when the demand is coated in polite flourishes, it's fine. CANADA! 

The mere fact of asking another person to speak in your language in this context is eye-rolling.

Imagine the reverse. You would all find it ridiculous if a bloc quebecois mp asked - in French - an alberta mp to give her answers in French. We know none of you fucking speak it, so what we do is either LEARN THE FUCKING LANGUAGE, or use translators. We don't pull a Karen and say "AcKshUallY caN yOu AnsWer in my PreFerreD lanGuage because I'M a SnoWflaKE whO caN't be BothEred kkthanxbai"

[Jacob]

As garbon says, we're often speaking from our biases. My bias is that it's more likely that Thomas has been deliberately pushing buttons on the use of French to provoke this response than St-Onge decided to make an issue of this out of the blue.

[Jacob]

So when the demand is coated in polite flourishes, it's fine. CANADA! 

The mere fact of asking another person to speak in your language in this context is eye-rolling.

Imagine the reverse. You would all find it ridiculous if a bloc quebecois mp asked - in French - an alberta mp to give her answers in French. We know none of you fucking speak it, so what we do is either LEARN THE FUCKING LANGUAGE, or use translators. We don't pull a Karen and say "AcKshUallY caN yOu AnsWer in my PreFerreD lanGuage because I'M a SnoWflaKE whO caN't be BothEred kkthanxbai"

Thank you for laying it out like this. I find this persuasive.

[Valmy]

Canada: fighting global warming despite its best efforts.