[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Josephus]

Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to give American custom and border officers on Canadian soil extended powers and possibility to override the jurisdiction of Canadian officers? Especially in this context?
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5382547

As I understand it, it gives American officers the same power they would have at the US border, but it gives it to them when they're stationed in Canada doing pre-clearances.  Your rights aren't any more or less violated - it's just the location which may have changed.

I think the issue is not whether your rights are violated or not, but that they're being violated by Americans in Canada. In the past, before this, you can refuse and retract your wish to visit the USA.

That's true when entering Canada.  Was it true for entering the US?

From the linked article:

This new authority also allows U.S. border guards to deny Canadians their right of withdrawal. Before the amendment to the law was enacted, if a person felt at all uncomfortable in the course of preclearance questioning she could simply leave, retracting her intention to cross the border with no penalty.

[crazy canuck]

The no penalty part is not quite accurate.  Voluntary withdrawl has always had potential consequences.  It is the ability to detain that is new. Basically preclearance areas now function as US territory. 

[The Minsky Moment]

Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to give American custom and border officers on Canadian soil extended powers and possibility to override the jurisdiction of Canadian officers? Especially in this context?
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5382547

As I understand it, it gives American officers the same power they would have at the US border, but it gives it to them when they're stationed in Canada doing pre-clearances.  Your rights aren't any more or less violated - it's just the location which may have changed.

That location being Canada.  Significant distinction in this context.  Odd concession to make.

[Barrister]

Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to give American custom and border officers on Canadian soil extended powers and possibility to override the jurisdiction of Canadian officers? Especially in this context?
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5382547

As I understand it, it gives American officers the same power they would have at the US border, but it gives it to them when they're stationed in Canada doing pre-clearances.  Your rights aren't any more or less violated - it's just the location which may have changed.

That location being Canada.  Significant distinction in this context.  Odd concession to make.

Canada-US border has gotten significantly harder over the last 20-30 years, which is bad for the Canadian economy.  Anything that can ease travel between the two countries has a lot of positives.

[Valmy]

Is that what this is doing? Easing travel?

[Barrister]

Is that what this is doing? Easing travel?

Yes.  You're pre-clearing customs in Canada, so when you land in the US you just get off the airplane and go.

[crazy canuck]

Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to give American custom and border officers on Canadian soil extended powers and possibility to override the jurisdiction of Canadian officers? Especially in this context?
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5382547

As I understand it, it gives American officers the same power they would have at the US border, but it gives it to them when they're stationed in Canada doing pre-clearances.  Your rights aren't any more or less violated - it's just the location which may have changed.

That location being Canada.  Significant distinction in this context.  Odd concession to make.

Canada-US border has gotten significantly harder over the last 20-30 years, which is bad for the Canadian economy.  Anything that can ease travel between the two countries has a lot of positives.

The pre-amendment system worked perfectly well for that purpose.  People the US did not want in the country did not gain entry.  No need to allow detention to further the purpose of travel.

[crazy canuck]

Is that what this is doing? Easing travel?

Yes.  You're pre-clearing customs in Canada, so when you land in the US you just get off the airplane and go.

I think you missed Valmy's point - this (meaning the amendment) has nothing to do with easing travel.  The previous system accomplished that.  This is something different.

[Barrister]

Poilièvre doesn't have the temperament to be the leader of a national party. He's a zealot attack dog that Harper wielded skillfully.

You say stuff like that and I might start pulling for the guy.

Please do... 

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2019/12/16/ottawa-conservative-mp-poilievre-considering-run-for-conservative-leadership.html



I'm uncommitted for now.  Article also says O'Toole and MacKay are organizing.

[Oexmelin]

Wonderful. If there's one thing I think Canada's political life was missing was knee-jerk partisanship and empty slogans.

[viper37]

Wonderful. If there's one thing I think Canada's political life was missing was knee-jerk partisanship and empty slogans.

And when they don't do that, you believe in weird conspiracy theories.


Anyway, Bernard Lord is favourite.  If he commits himself.

[saskganesh]

The border thing is a post 9/11 security arrangement. Security is the top priority as the border, not trade.

If this worries you, you should check out the treaty rights allowing the US Military to enter and deploy in Canada

[saskganesh]

I don't thing Harper will make a comeback, but this recent fiasco has his former minions swarming the scene, fanning the flames of insurrection.

[crazy canuck]

The border thing is a post 9/11 security arrangement. Security is the top priority as the border, not trade.

If this worries you, you should check out the treaty rights allowing the US Military to enter and deploy in Canada

There was preclearance at Canadian airports before that tragic day.

The ability of US officials to detain is new.

[Barrister]

So, after one of their executives was found guilty at trial, one of the SNC Lavelin companies enters a guilty plea, in exchange for other connected companies having their charges dropped.  Total fine is $283 million plus probation.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/snc-lavalin-trading-court-libya-charges-1.5400542

Look, this kind of prosecution is so far beyond the stuff I do I really can't say whether that's a fair resolution or not.  But I have to say that after Trump showed how you can get away with absolute complete contempt for principles of justice, I was fully expecting some kind of extremely shady resolution after the election.

Now from what I can recall, what SNC was really worried about is that a conviction would prohibit them from receiving government contracts for a number of years.  Perhaps because the plea was only for one company, and not the corporate umbrella, they've managed to largely escape that consequence.  I'd love to hear a deeper analysis on this point.