[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Valmy]

fantasizing on princes&princesses.  For a 10 year old girl...

What about Crusader Kings players?

[viper37]

that's what I'm getting at.
Respect is given at gunpoint, or alternatively, when people need your money.

You have a twisted view of respect. These thing bring deference, not respect.

I was bullied in school.  I learnt not to tolerate it, and then I could walk free.  It took some... persuasion, but I got respect.

[viper37]

fantasizing on princes&princesses.  For a 10 year old girl...

What about Crusader Kings players?

I suppose one could make an exception

[Malthus]

Most canadians don't care if you want to be different (or at least the ones that even give that fact that quebec wasn't to a be different a second thought). They ( i, to be the most specific) just find it funny that you want to protect your right to be different as a minority in this nation while curtiailing the rights of minorities in your province to be different.

The rights of the minorities are not curtailed.  They can send their kids to any school they like, so long as it fits the curriculum of the Education dept, wich is the same for all kids.  We just don't subsidize english schools for everyone.

As for caring or not, well, given the tone of many of the G&M and National Post (and lately Sun News who went batshit insane with the possible collaboration of Gilles Duceppe in a CBC radio show), I do say they care.  I don't care about gay marriage.  Do you see posting every weeks about gay marriage?

Heh, now there's an interesting comparison. Sounds like an answer to gay marriage advocates ... "there is no discrimination against gays in not funding city hall to hold gay weddings. After all, gay guys can get married to any woman they want to ... same for hetero guys. Where's the discrimination?" 

[HVC]

I can understand fantasizing on princes&princesses.  For a 10 year old girl...

I don't fanaticize about princes and princesses... well except for the Swedish princess, but that's for a whole other reason lol. She's the Canadian queen. They only ones fantasizing are those who try to say she's not. 'sides, if it wasn't for her we'd have dumb animals on both sides of our coins    

[viper37]

Heh, now there's an interesting comparison. Sounds like an answer to gay marriage advocates ... "there is no discrimination against gays in not funding city hall to hold gay weddings. After all, gay guys can get married to any woman they want to ... same for hetero guys. Where's the discrimination?" 

A more approriate comparison: is it just for a Church to refuse the marriage of two men or two women?  There are churches doing it, most of them won't.  Do gays feel the terrible discrimination of not marrying in a Catholic or Baptist Church?

[viper37]

if it wasn't for her we'd have dumb animals on both sides of our coins    

the bear isn't dumb
And we've got American eagles now (well, technically not an eagle), kinda not dumb either for an animal.  Maybe we should put these on our money

[Malthus]

Heh, now there's an interesting comparison. Sounds like an answer to gay marriage advocates ... "there is no discrimination against gays in not funding city hall to hold gay weddings. After all, gay guys can get married to any woman they want to ... same for hetero guys. Where's the discrimination?" 

A more approriate comparison: is it just for a Church to refuse the marriage of two men or two women?  There are churches doing it, most of them won't.  Do gays feel the terrible discrimination of not marrying in a Catholic or Baptist Church?

No, my original - which had to do with using public funds to pay for a City Hall wedding - is a better analogy.

Public doesn't like gays, doesn't want tax dollars to partly fund their weddings. Gays are perfectly able to get married somewhere else if they want to marry other guys, at their expense, if they can find someone willing to do it.

The notion that this is somehow not discrimination because those gay guys can marry women if they want the city hall wedding is the silliness I'm attacking.

[Neil]

What do you care about - political power, or "respect"? The two are not the same (and Quebec *has* its share of political power within Canada!)

Quebec has no power.  Really, if Quebec had power, the Feds wouldn't be helping NewFoundland to compete with our electricity export.  There wouldn't be a new Federal Securities Commission, and there would never have been a merger between Toronto and Montreal Stock Exchange, unless the majority of activites were centered in Montreal.

Wow.  Begrudging Newfoundland the exploitation of their natural resources?  That's just ridiculous.  I just can't take you seriously in this thread anymore.  This thread has made me less able to understand the greivances of Quebec, since according to you, it seems that their greivances include the thought that someone, somewhere might not live in abject poverty, and in so doing diminish Quebec.

You didn't see me whining and bitching when the feds were helping the Newfs drill offshore.

One province receives an unfair advantage to directly compete another and you think it's to prevent them from living in abject poverty?
Oh, Jesus.  Might as well tell me that government subsidies are always a good thing.  What happenned with free market?

Newfoundland is pretty poor, so yeah, I do.   I'm sure that if Quebec ever became a 'have' province, you'd lead the crusade against equalization, too.  Still, for a province that sucks in more money than any other to whine about what the Newfs are getting is weak.

The free market is dead, as anyone living in Quebec well knows.  It's all about degrees of unfree these days, and we're better for it.

[viper37]

No, my original - which had to do with using public funds to pay for a City Hall wedding - is a better analogy.

you don't pay the city all on a per person basis, unlike schools.  A school's budget is dependant on how many students it gets.  Afaik, the City Hall doesn't work that way.

What you want, is to force a community to pay for a specific thing wich is against their culture.  In the case of education, paying to be assimilated.  In the case of gay marriage, paying to go against their beliefs.

Public doesn't like gays, doesn't want tax dollars to partly fund their weddings. Gays are perfectly able to get married somewhere else if they want to marry other guys, at their expense, if they can find someone willing to do it.

It was a democratic decision to allow gays to marry.  The cost of the marriage in itself in insignificant, it's the cost of the tax breaks for married people that costs more.
We made the judgement, as a society, that it was a good thing for gays to be married, despite the objection of some group.  I may be for or against gay marriage, and I may have good arguments on both sides, but this issue has been ruled by the democratically elected parliament, and until such time as a majority of people feel threatened by by homosexual couples kissing in City Halls, it will be tolerated.  One could argue it infringes on the rights of some religious communities to accept that gays and heteros will share the same bond, also called marriage.  One could also say the damage to the anti-gays is less significant by allowing the marriage than the dammage to the gays of not allowing the marriage.

And here we have a parliament, who voted, by majority, that non Commonwealth citizens should attend public French schools, or pay out of their own pockets to educate their children in swaheli, english, or spanish.

It may cause some English Canadians heartburns and sleepless nights, but it has been decided that the damage to the anglo community is far less than the damage to the French community in case all immigrants had free choice for publicly funded schools.

The notion that this is somehow not discrimination because those gay guys can marry women if they want the city hall wedding is the silliness I'm attacking.

That is a totally different issue.  Non married couples are discriminated by law.  Some make that choice, but some others were prevented to day it.  Allowing gay marriages, albeit not in a Church, removed a part of this discrimination.  But gays could argue they are still persecuted because they are forced to attend City Hall instead of a Church like hetero couples.  Just like anglo-Quebecers feel persecuted because the kids of some immigrants do not have access to their schools and are instead assimilated into an another community than their own (in theory).

[viper37]

What do you care about - political power, or "respect"? The two are not the same (and Quebec *has* its share of political power within Canada!)

Quebec has no power.  Really, if Quebec had power, the Feds wouldn't be helping NewFoundland to compete with our electricity export.  There wouldn't be a new Federal Securities Commission, and there would never have been a merger between Toronto and Montreal Stock Exchange, unless the majority of activites were centered in Montreal.

Wow.  Begrudging Newfoundland the exploitation of their natural resources?  That's just ridiculous.  I just can't take you seriously in this thread anymore.  This thread has made me less able to understand the greivances of Quebec, since according to you, it seems that their greivances include the thought that someone, somewhere might not live in abject poverty, and in so doing diminish Quebec.

You didn't see me whining and bitching when the feds were helping the Newfs drill offshore.

One province receives an unfair advantage to directly compete another and you think it's to prevent them from living in abject poverty?
Oh, Jesus.  Might as well tell me that government subsidies are always a good thing.  What happenned with free market?

Newfoundland is pretty poor, so yeah, I do.   I'm sure that if Quebec ever became a 'have' province, you'd lead the crusade against equalization, too.  Still, for a province that sucks in more money than any other to whine about what the Newfs are getting is weak.

The free market is dead, as anyone living in Quebec well knows.  It's all about degrees of unfree these days, and we're better for it.

So what you're saying, is "suck it up because you're Quebec".  It's not enough you gave them Labrador, you want us to give them a free ride too, I suppose?

Newfoundland produces its electricity in Labrador.  Wich is closes, Quebec's power lines or Nova Scotia?
The feds are simply helping them compete with Quebec for their exports.  No one gave us money to build our electricity network.  Yet, we're a have not province and according to a very popular myth have been so since the beginning.
I wonder how we manage that.

[Neil]

And Quebec produce hydroelectricty that competes with my oil.

[Grey Fox]

And Quebec produce hydroelectricty that competes with my oil.

Obviously the solution is to ask the Federal Government for Money.

[Neil]

And Quebec produce hydroelectricty that competes with my oil.

Obviously the solution is to ask the Federal Government for Money.

Probably not a good idea.  My province isn't poor, and can stand on its own.

[viper37]

Probably not a good idea.  My province isn't poor, and can stand on its own.

I wish you would do so without subsidies and tax breaks for oil companies.