March Madness

[CountDeMoney]

where is the blown call?

Chest to elbow, I believe is what they're saying.

Uhhh, no. That is a great block.

As we always say "If the shot missed because it got swatted into the stands, ignore incidental body contact afterwards..."

That was not even a great no-call...it was a routine no-call.

His hand was above the rim. It was goaltending.  Some ref you are.

[Berkut]

True, but was it the contact that created the block?

Nope - then there was no advantage gained by the contact. Contact, by rule, is not a foul unless an illegal advantage is gained by that contact.

You don't get bailed out of having your shot sent into the stands by a foul call, unless it was the contact that allowed the shot to get sent in the first place. That was not the case here - that ball was blocked because the defender had his hand above the ball long before it left the shooters hand. The bump on the elbow meant nada.

Routine no call. Would not call it in the first 38 minutes, sure as hell would not call it in the last 2.

Ah, see, I wasn't aware that you could throw your body into someone's arm while they're shooting as long as you get the block afterwards.    

More like making some incidental contact while rejecting a shot doesn't mean we are going to call the contact while ignoring the fact that the reason the shot missed had nothing to do with the contact, but rather because your shot ended up somewhere in row eight.

(no but seriously, you should go argue this on some of the basketball forums, or at least go check out the rage posts)

Well yeah, fans are generally clueless about the rules.

[Berkut]

His hand was above the rim. It was goaltending.  Some ref you are.

See last sentence, previous post.

[MadBurgerMaker]

More like making some incidental contact while rejecting a shot doesn't mean we are going to call the contact while ignoring the fact that the reason the shot missed had nothing to do with the contact, but rather because your shot ended up somewhere in row eight.

No, I'm pretty sure you can't throw yourself into someones arm and shoulder while they're taking a shot no matter what.   The question, very mild trolling aside, is really more if that actually happened, or if it's just the angle of the gif. 

Well yeah, fans are generally clueless about the rules.

What about Arizona basketball players? Williams apparently said it was a foul in the press conference (this is according to Memphis fans, not me, I have no idea).    It doesn't matter anyway though.

[derspiess]

Well, there were a couple good Gus Johnson games.  Nova-George Mason had at least 5 good possible additions to the Gus Johnson Soundboard.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Well, there were a couple good Gus Johnson games.  Nova-George Mason had at least 5 good possible additions to the Gus Johnson Soundboard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC4EiCRLoF8&feature=player_embedded

[Berkut]

More like making some incidental contact while rejecting a shot doesn't mean we are going to call the contact while ignoring the fact that the reason the shot missed had nothing to do with the contact, but rather because your shot ended up somewhere in row eight.

No, I'm pretty sure you can't throw yourself into someones arm and shoulder while they're taking a shot no matter what.   The question, very mild trolling aside, is really more if that actually happened, or if it's just the angle of the gif. 

Well, you are putting the description in rather biased terms - "he threw himself into...". Officials don't look a things that way.

Here is what we see on a play like this.

A1 is going for a shot. B1 contests the shot, and blocks it. While doing so, some contact with A1 is made on the elbow.

Question: Did B1 gain an illegal advantage by that contact? Well, there is a reason officials are taught to have "slow whistles" - what was the outcome of the play? In this case, the outcome was that the shot was blocked, and it wasn't even close. So how could the defender have gained an advantage by the contact, when the shot never had any chance of going in to begin with?

This is the same philosophy that says you hold you whistle on a put back where there is a little bumping during the rebound.Don't give cheap and-1s.

Finally, watch the play at full speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwRzNFJ67oM

It is not at all clear at full speed that the contact was before the block. At playing speed, whatever contact was there was essentially simultaneous, or close enough that you are going to consider it simultaneous.

This is a routine no call.

[MadBurgerMaker]

So it's okay to hit someone on the arm while they're shooting?   I just want to be sure.

[Berkut]

So it's okay to hit someone on the arm while they're shooting?   I just want to be sure.

Contact on the shooters arm is not always a foul.

That is not the same thing as saying "it is okay to hit someone on the arm while they are shooting". Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

[MadBurgerMaker]

Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

Pardon?

[Berkut]

Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

Pardon?

It's a simple question, isn't it? A yes or no will suffice.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/loadques.html

[MadBurgerMaker]

It's a simple question, isn't it? A yes or no will suffice.

Excuse me?  Is this where I'm supposed to ask you if you're still raping your kid?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pedophile

Or, back in non complete fucking tool territory, you could note that the Memphis fans might actually have a legitimate complaint, which is backed up by the Arizona player coming out and saying it was a foul and since he was a) actually involved in the play, b) isn't you, and c) isn't a ref who apparently had to remove himself from the Big East tournament for fucking up so badly, he might actually know what's going on.  Also note that since there aren't any Memphis fans here, or at least none involved in this, you're vehemently arguing about shit with someone who doesn't really give a damn about it, and indeed actually wanted Arizona to win.  If you didn't read posts the way you probably ref games, these things might have been obvious to you.

BTW, there was another, more easy to see foul on the rebound.  If I were a Memphis fan, I'd probably be more pissed about that, since it's so obvious.  42 knew he did it, which was why he immediately just held both arms straight up and backed away after coming down.

[Berkut]

You can ask that if you like, I guess. It would not be the first loaded question you've asked in the thread though.

Memphis fans have no legitimate complaint, and the Arizona player never said it was a foul. And even if he DID say it was a foul, his saying so doesn't make it a foul either. Hell, if we could just count on the players let us know when they foul, you wouldn't need officials at all.

And fans, especially losing fans, bitch about calls and non calls all the time. That doesn't mean they are right - they are almost never right. They are not right in this case. But that is because fans don't understand the rules, and think things like "he hit his arm, how could that not be a foul????" are legitimate arguments.

Whether or not you want Arizona to win or not doesn't make it a foul either. Why you are so upset that you need to make a discussion about how basketball is officiated personal, I am not really sure. But hey, you are  fan, you are entitled to your (wrong) opinion about what constitutes a foul or not.

BTW, the "foul" on the rebound would be a terrible call - the player who was "fouled" ended up with the ball, standing underneath the basket with an easy layup. Another example of a call that should not be made, and would not be made at any other point in the game, much less in the final seconds.

Contact is not always a foul. Just keep repeating that to yourself, and you might start understanding how basketball is officiated, as opposed to how it is watched.

[MadBurgerMaker]

You can ask that if you like, I guess. It would not be the first loaded question you've asked in the thread though.

Of course I wouldn't like to ask someone something like that.  Because that's a douche thing to do.  What is wrong with you? 

Memphis fans have no legitimate complaint, and the Arizona player never said it was a foul. And even if he DID say it was a foul, his saying so doesn't make it a foul either. 

Yeah, I mean, on one hand I have you.  On the other, I have a D1 player for a major team.  If he DID say it was a foul, then sorry, but I gotta go with the guy who's actually involved at that level.  Since you're asking me about beating my wife atm, I've gone ahead and assumed he did say it and I'll now tell you to go fuck yourself and take it up with your own player.   How's that?

Hell, if we could just count on the players let us know when they foul, you wouldn't need officials at all.

This might make sense if he had called it on himself during the game.

Whether or not you want Arizona to win or not doesn't make it a foul either. Why you are so upset that you need to make a discussion about how basketball is officiated personal, I am not really sure. But hey, you are  fan, you are entitled to your (wrong) opinion about what constitutes a foul or not.

The only thing I might be considered upset about is some dude on a message board asking me about beating my wife, although that really just makes me think you're a jerkoff.  Otherwise, it's just a late game no call that could have gone either way, no matter what you say (and now, reading the Arizona player's press conference blurb, is pretty much what he said).

BTW, the "foul" on the rebound would be a terrible call - the player who was fouled ended up with the ball, standing underneath the basket with an easy layup. Another example of a call that should not be made, and would not be made.

Of course not.  It's okay as long as he ends up with the ball standing "underneath" the basket.  No wait, that kind of shit gets called all the time.  It's why the reaction was the way it was.  42 was praying it wouldn't get called right then.

Contact is not always a foul.

No, it's not, and nor should it be, since there would be a whistle every half second.  THIS is not regular old contact though, it's more than that and it's in a game deciding situation.  This is why the news articles and shit are popping up about it, and why that gif was almost immediately made.





But yeah:

go fuck yourself and take it up with your own player

Will be the response from now on to anything you say to me about it.  If you want to discuss or talk some shit about the Texas - Arizona game on Sunday, I'm totally down for that.  The winner probably plays Duke, then probably UConn/SDSU, then....ugh...

If you want to argue about this dumb Memphis shit with someone, go find a Tigers fan somewhere (there are one or two on Something Awful, I think, unless those were just outside parties as well) or find an article and use the comments.  It's my own fault that I've given you even this many responses about this meaningless crap.

[sbr]

I have never officiated a basketball game, but I loved basketball growing up and I can't imagine anyone younger than 40 that has watched more bball than I have.  I also didn't see the play until I read this thread.

That was not a foul.  I understand why the Memphis fans are crying about it but that's tough shit.  If anything the shooter initiated contact by extending his elbow as he goes up.  Of course you can only see that in the ridiculous slo-mo gif that was posted here.  No way an official can call that in real time without replay, if he had there would be even more people bitching that the official had "decided the game" the other way.