Rome

[Caliga]

Well, according to some, she was Black ... neat trick for an inbred Macedonian.

Well those same dudes think Aesop was black too, so I guess they think the ancient Greeks were all black. 

Hey, did you know the Vikings were actually Chinese? 

[Valmy]

As an aside, The Tudors will end after the current Season 4.  At least they're not going to give Henry some more wives just to keep the series going. 

Pity.  I was looking forward to King Edward.

[grumbler]

I find grallon's outrage over the portrayal of Cleopatra amusing - as most of our knowledge of her comes from histories written long after her death (and the contemporary source material is mostly propagandistic in nature) - the truth is that we basically have no idea about Cleopatra's personality or sexual habits, or indeed much of anything else beyond a few bare facts concerning events and some archaelogical material.

When you say "we" you are not including Grallon; he claims to know what a Ptolemy would and would not do.  I believe him as much as I believe those who claim to know that "Jesus hates gays."

[Malthus]

Well, according to some, she was Black ... neat trick for an inbred Macedonian.

You are assuming that the reported geneologies are an accurate reflection of what really happened.  A highly questionable assumption

(That isn't to say I am supporting the "Black Cleopatra" hypothesis).   

It would have been pretty remarkable for someone who *claimed* to be an inbred Macedonian to have *actually* been visibly Black - someone would have, you would think, noticed this discrepancy. 

[Sheilbh]

Pity.  I was looking forward to King Edward.

He's a very interesting character.

[crazy canuck]

Well those same dudes think Aesop was black too, so I guess they think the ancient Greeks were all black. 

Which is exactly the claim made in Black Athena which, if we were to pick a starting point, is probably the start of the whole White is Black craze.

Others had made the claims that Ancient Greece owed much to Ancient Egypt (something which is not itself all that surprising) but Bernal went on to make the claims that a) Egyptians were Black (something the ancients didnt seem to care much about but which is a loaded statement in today's world) and b) that these Black Egyptians first settled Greece and gave birth to Greek culture.

[crazy canuck]

Pity.  I was looking forward to King Edward.

He's a very interesting character.

There is a fairly recent book out making the claim that he set the stage for Elizabeth's rule, including creating the framework for religious reform (which had to be put aside from Mary's brief reign.)

[Valmy]

There is a fairly recent book out making the claim that he set the stage for Elizabeth's rule, including creating the framework for religious reform (which had to be put aside from Mary's brief reign.)

That is hardly a recent claim.  His reign was when the reformation really got rolling in England, Henry VIII was too conservative and held back the reformers.

[Syt]

Well those same dudes think Aesop was black too, so I guess they think the ancient Greeks were all black. 

I've known Greeks who claimed that all Greeks were tall, blond, blue-eyed ... before they were occupied by the Turks.

[garbon]

Pity.  I was looking forward to King Edward.

He's a very interesting character.

Children.

[garbon]

There is a fairly recent book out making the claim that he set the stage for Elizabeth's rule, including creating the framework for religious reform (which had to be put aside from Mary's brief reign.)

That is hardly a recent claim.  His reign was when the reformation really got rolling in England, Henry VIII was too conservative and held back the reformers.

[crazy canuck]

There is a fairly recent book out making the claim that he set the stage for Elizabeth's rule, including creating the framework for religious reform (which had to be put aside from Mary's brief reign.)

That is hardly a recent claim.  His reign was when the reformation really got rolling in England, Henry VIII was too conservative and held back the reformers.

I dont know if the cliam is recent or not. I said there is a recent book that makes the claim.  Since recent books have the advantage of reviewing material that has already been published I thought that might be of interest.

[Caliga]

Others had made the claims that Ancient Greece owed much to Ancient Egypt (something which is not itself all that surprising) but Bernal went on to make the claims that a) Egyptians were Black (something the ancients didnt seem to care much about but which is a loaded statement in today's world) and b) that these Black Egyptians first settled Greece and gave birth to Greek culture.

The reconstruction of Tut's face, as well as other mummies which have been reasonably authenticated, suggests to me that the ancient Egyptians were... Egyptian.  I know that's a CRAZY, OUT-THERE suggestion to alot of folks, but I think they're just going to have to accept it. 

[garbon]

I dont know if the cliam is recent or not. I said there is a recent book that makes the claim.  Since recent books have the advantage of reviewing material that has already been published I thought that might be of interest.

Like 1421?

[crazy canuck]

Others had made the claims that Ancient Greece owed much to Ancient Egypt (something which is not itself all that surprising) but Bernal went on to make the claims that a) Egyptians were Black (something the ancients didnt seem to care much about but which is a loaded statement in today's world) and b) that these Black Egyptians first settled Greece and gave birth to Greek culture.

The reconstruction of Tut's face, as well as other mummies which have been reasonably authenticated, suggests to me that the ancient Egyptians were... Egyptian.  I know that's a CRAZY, OUT-THERE suggestion to alot of folks, but I think they're just going to have to accept it. 

Yep, I dont think Black Athena did much for Bernal's academic career.