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Rome

Started by Sheilbh, April 11, 2009, 07:42:39 PM

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ulmont

Quote from: grumbler on April 13, 2009, 03:19:20 PM
Quote from: Grallon on April 13, 2009, 02:04:49 PM
But since you bleet about it, I'll explain how I missed the point to you - again.
FYPFY

Really, you claim to fix his post, and don't correct "bleet" to "bleat?"

DisturbedPervert

Quote from: grumbler on April 13, 2009, 03:19:20 PM
Besides, it is a TV drama, not a history, and all that is required IMO is plausibility within the story.  Asking for Rome to be perfectly historically accurate is like asking The Lord of the Rings to be so; it's not in the cards.

There is a hell of a lot more plausibility within the story in Rome than there was in BSG.   :D

vinraith

Quote from: DisturbedPervert on April 13, 2009, 03:30:38 PM
Quote from: grumbler on April 13, 2009, 03:19:20 PM
Besides, it is a TV drama, not a history, and all that is required IMO is plausibility within the story.  Asking for Rome to be perfectly historically accurate is like asking The Lord of the Rings to be so; it's not in the cards.

There is a hell of a lot more plausibility within the story in Rome than there was in BSG.   :D

:lol: A-fucking-men. At least the writers of Rome knew what the hell they were doing. Then again, I've taken to comparing everything to the ending of BSG simply because it makes everything look better by comparison.

Norgy

If people want to really rag on someone for producing crap out of Caesar/Rome/Brutus/Octavian and being more than a little light-handed with historicity, they should hunt down and kill Conn Iggudden.

Brutus is presented as an adopted Julii, Servilia as Brutus whorehouse-owning mother, Octavian is a foundling, Gaius Marius is the finest person evah, Sulla is Darth Sulla, Suetonius is Caesar's boyhood rival and neighbour. It is really quite messy and mostly good for kindling.  <_<

grumbler

Quote from: ulmont on April 13, 2009, 03:24:05 PM
Really, you claim to fix his post, and don't correct "bleet" to "bleat?"
I don't speak French.  :bowler:
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

grumbler

Quote from: DisturbedPervert on April 13, 2009, 03:30:38 PM
Quote from: grumbler on April 13, 2009, 03:19:20 PM
Besides, it is a TV drama, not a history, and all that is required IMO is plausibility within the story.  Asking for Rome to be perfectly historically accurate is like asking The Lord of the Rings to be so; it's not in the cards.

There is a hell of a lot more plausibility within the story in Rome than there was in BSG.   :D
Don't even try to get Grallon started on BSG!  We'll be here forever hearing about how great it was and how those who pick at it are morons!
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Habsburg

Quote from: Sheilbh on April 11, 2009, 07:42:39 PM

What did everyone else think, or object to?

No Sian Phillips.  :contract:

This can not be bourne.

grumbler

Quote from: Norgy on April 13, 2009, 03:36:51 PM
If people want to really rag on someone for producing crap out of Caesar/Rome/Brutus/Octavian and being more than a little light-handed with historicity, they should hunt down and kill Conn Iggudden.

Brutus is presented as an adopted Julii, Servilia as Brutus whorehouse-owning mother, Octavian is a foundling, Gaius Marius is the finest person evah, Sulla is Darth Sulla, Suetonius is Caesar's boyhood rival and neighbour. It is really quite messy and mostly good for kindling.  <_<
But these books are presented as pure fiction, kinda like King Arthur books or Lest Darkness Fall, no?

I prefer the McCullugh books and the stuff by Graves, myself.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Norgy

Well, Igulden or Igudden at least has the decency to sum up what he made up and what is based on historical evidence.

The Emperor series, I suspect, were also written for a young audience, and resembles fantasy literature more than "historical novels".
I think most would know it is fiction and not fact.



Josephus

As an aside, The Tudors will end after the current Season 4.  At least they're not going to give Henry some more wives just to keep the series going.  ;)
Civis Romanus Sum<br /><br />"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." Jack Layton 1950-2011

Norgy

I had hoped Elizabeth I would be covered. :(

Then again, I can always watch some Blackadder 2. It's at least more entertaining than the last movie about Elizabeth.

The Minsky Moment

I find grallon's outrage over the portrayal of Cleopatra amusing - as most of our knowledge of her comes from histories written long after her death (and the contemporary source material is mostly propagandistic in nature) - the truth is that we basically have no idea about Cleopatra's personality or sexual habits, or indeed much of anything else beyond a few bare facts concerning events and some archaelogical material.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Malthus

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 14, 2009, 09:04:52 AM
I find grallon's outrage over the portrayal of Cleopatra amusing - as most of our knowledge of her comes from histories written long after her death (and the contemporary source material is mostly propagandistic in nature) - the truth is that we basically have no idea about Cleopatra's personality or sexual habits, or indeed much of anything else beyond a few bare facts concerning events and some archaelogical material.

Well, according to some, she was Black ... neat trick for an inbred Macedonian. :D
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Sheilbh on April 13, 2009, 02:32:55 PM
That may be true but with Suetonius and Tacitus I think it's impossible to judge the degree they used sources.  The other sources generally haven't survived and the Classical practise was to use the words of another if you agreed with them and only cite a source if you wish to take issue with what they've said.  This makes attributing sources very difficult.

I imagine the preference for Tacitus within the academic community comes from the observation that he treats Tiberius and the year of the four emperors in a way that's more more congruent with what else we know about those figures and that period.  There are other periods too that they overlap and, generally, I think Tacitus's version better gels with other sources we have and what we've learned from other techniques.

I don't think either is particularly reliable - it is safe to say that historiographic method at the time had little in common with our present understanding. 
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Malthus on April 14, 2009, 09:17:06 AM
Well, according to some, she was Black ... neat trick for an inbred Macedonian. :D

You are assuming that the reported geneologies are an accurate reflection of what really happened.  A highly questionable assumption

(That isn't to say I am supporting the "Black Cleopatra" hypothesis).   :)
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson