TV/Movies Megathread

[Maladict]

Watched Interstellar, wasting 3 hours of my life.

[celedhring]

These 3 hours are probably 40 years in some other planet. That will probably make you feel worse.

[Duque de Bragança]

This white blond lady being claimed as a Latina (in the context of that being a social disadvantage due to racism) is a prime example.

I have always found American racial categories very weird - particularly in relation to Latino/Hispanic identities. I wonder if they'll last or if they are just the latest iteration of the way the boundaries of whiteness were policed and actually in a few years many people in those categories will broadly be seen as white, unless they are black? And a lot of Latino/Hispanic identities become like the old "white ethnic" identities: Irish, Italians, Poles etc.

The other celebrity/TV/thing I've seen on Twitter which always makes me think how weird the categorisation is is when every now and then people online have discourse around whether Jason Mantzoukas (who is Greek) is white or not.

Welcome to US Identity Politics! 

[grumbler]

I have always found American racial categories very weird - particularly in relation to Latino/Hispanic identities. I wonder if they'll last or if they are just the latest iteration of the way the boundaries of whiteness were policed and actually in a few years many people in those categories will broadly be seen as white, unless they are black? And a lot of Latino/Hispanic identities become like the old "white ethnic" identities: Irish, Italians, Poles etc.

The other celebrity/TV/thing I've seen on Twitter which always makes me think how weird the categorisation is is when every now and then people online have discourse around whether Jason Mantzoukas (who is Greek) is white or not.

I can't think of anyone's racial categories that are not very weird.  Lots of people believe that they exist, but no one can definitively define them.

Arguments over whether "X" person is "Y" race always collapse into statements of opinion about whether some trivial feature defines races.

[crazy canuck]

I have always found American racial categories very weird - particularly in relation to Latino/Hispanic identities. I wonder if they'll last or if they are just the latest iteration of the way the boundaries of whiteness were policed and actually in a few years many people in those categories will broadly be seen as white, unless they are black? And a lot of Latino/Hispanic identities become like the old "white ethnic" identities: Irish, Italians, Poles etc.

The other celebrity/TV/thing I've seen on Twitter which always makes me think how weird the categorisation is is when every now and then people online have discourse around whether Jason Mantzoukas (who is Greek) is white or not.

I can't think of anyone's racial categories that are not very weird.  Lots of people believe that they exist, but no one can definitively define them.

Arguments over whether "X" person is "Y" race always collapse into statements of opinion about whether some trivial feature defines races.

Agreed.  I also find it odd that people still use the term "race".

[grumbler]

Agreed.  I also find it odd that people still use the term "race".

Yeah.  Racism clearly exists.  "Race" not so much.

I hope we can get to the point where the only people who believe in race are the racists.

[HVC]

The other celebrity/TV/thing I've seen on Twitter which always makes me think how weird the categorisation is is when every now and then people online have discourse around whether Jason Mantzoukas (who is Greek) is white or not.

He's the kind of guy who could pass for any nationality in the Mediterranean basin. 

i always thought he was Armenian for some reason.

[The Larch]

The other celebrity/TV/thing I've seen on Twitter which always makes me think how weird the categorisation is is when every now and then people online have discourse around whether Jason Mantzoukas (who is Greek) is white or not.

He's the kind of guy who could pass for any nationality in the Mediterranean basin. 

i always thought he was Armenian for some reason.

The Caucasus is Mediterranean-adjacent, in any case. And Armenians used to inhabit parts of the Anatolian coastline back in the day, so good enough for me. 

[crazy canuck]

Agreed.  I also find it odd that people still use the term "race".

Yeah.  Racism clearly exists.  "Race" not so much.

I hope we can get to the point where the only people who believe in race are the racists.

[Barrister]

I have always found American racial categories very weird - particularly in relation to Latino/Hispanic identities. I wonder if they'll last or if they are just the latest iteration of the way the boundaries of whiteness were policed and actually in a few years many people in those categories will broadly be seen as white, unless they are black? And a lot of Latino/Hispanic identities become like the old "white ethnic" identities: Irish, Italians, Poles etc.

The other celebrity/TV/thing I've seen on Twitter which always makes me think how weird the categorisation is is when every now and then people online have discourse around whether Jason Mantzoukas (who is Greek) is white or not.

I can't think of anyone's racial categories that are not very weird.  Lots of people believe that they exist, but no one can definitively define them.

Arguments over whether "X" person is "Y" race always collapse into statements of opinion about whether some trivial feature defines races.

It all tends to be very US_centric, even though the language has spread over much of the (at least english-speaking) world.  The world is divided into white, and not-white (or BIPOC).  You might be a high-caste family in India, or a communist party princeling from China, but you're still a BIPOC and presumed to have solidarity with all other people of colour.

[Sheilbh]

It all tends to be very US_centric, even though the language has spread over much of the (at least english-speaking) world.  The world is divided into white, and not-white (or BIPOC).  You might be a high-caste family in India, or a communist party princeling from China, but you're still a BIPOC and presumed to have solidarity with all other people of colour.

Yeah the US discourse shapes ours (and I think the US is ahead of us on lots of these issues) - so BIPOC has been used a few times in the UK, for example by Hackney Council, until someone pointed out that "indigenous" has very different and far more racist connotations here

[crazy canuck]

I have always found American racial categories very weird - particularly in relation to Latino/Hispanic identities. I wonder if they'll last or if they are just the latest iteration of the way the boundaries of whiteness were policed and actually in a few years many people in those categories will broadly be seen as white, unless they are black? And a lot of Latino/Hispanic identities become like the old "white ethnic" identities: Irish, Italians, Poles etc.

The other celebrity/TV/thing I've seen on Twitter which always makes me think how weird the categorisation is is when every now and then people online have discourse around whether Jason Mantzoukas (who is Greek) is white or not.

I can't think of anyone's racial categories that are not very weird.  Lots of people believe that they exist, but no one can definitively define them.

Arguments over whether "X" person is "Y" race always collapse into statements of opinion about whether some trivial feature defines races.

It all tends to be very US_centric, even though the language has spread over much of the (at least english-speaking) world.  The world is divided into white, and not-white (or BIPOC).  You might be a high-caste family in India, or a communist party princeling from China, but you're still a BIPOC and presumed to have solidarity with all other people of colour.

I don't think it used used to denote solidarity.  I think it is used because "non-white" was demeaning as a descriptor.

[Duque de Bragança]

The other celebrity/TV/thing I've seen on Twitter which always makes me think how weird the categorisation is is when every now and then people online have discourse around whether Jason Mantzoukas (who is Greek) is white or not.

He's the kind of guy who could pass for any nationality in the Mediterranean basin. 

i always thought he was Armenian for some reason.

The Caucasus is Mediterranean-adjacent, in any case. And Armenians used to inhabit parts of the Anatolian coastline back in the day, so good enough for me. 

Since Psellus no longer visits the forum, somebody has to claim the mantle. 

PS: Adjacent though the Pontus-Euxinus/Black Sea. Distinction between Greater and Lesser Caucasus is mostly lost nowadays, anyways.

[Valmy]

Yeah the US discourse shapes ours (and I think the US is ahead of us on lots of these issues) - so BIPOC has been used a few times in the UK, for example by Hackney Council, until someone pointed out that "indigenous" has very different and far more racist connotations here

Indigenous is a very important concept over here in this hemisphere...but a very shitty one over in Africa/Asia/Europe (except outside of some very specific colonized places like maybe South Africa). Quickly it boils down to which nationalist group has special rights over their enemies, which is not really how that term is intended to be used.

"We are indigenous to this land while these immigrants are evil colonizers"

Yeah ok.

[grumbler]

I have always found American racial categories very weird - particularly in relation to Latino/Hispanic identities. I wonder if they'll last or if they are just the latest iteration of the way the boundaries of whiteness were policed and actually in a few years many people in those categories will broadly be seen as white, unless they are black? And a lot of Latino/Hispanic identities become like the old "white ethnic" identities: Irish, Italians, Poles etc.

The other celebrity/TV/thing I've seen on Twitter which always makes me think how weird the categorisation is is when every now and then people online have discourse around whether Jason Mantzoukas (who is Greek) is white or not.

I can't think of anyone's racial categories that are not very weird.  Lots of people believe that they exist, but no one can definitively define them.

Arguments over whether "X" person is "Y" race always collapse into statements of opinion about whether some trivial feature defines races.

It all tends to be very US_centric, even though the language has spread over much of the (at least english-speaking) world.  The world is divided into white, and not-white (or BIPOC).  You might be a high-caste family in India, or a communist party princeling from China, but you're still a BIPOC and presumed to have solidarity with all other people of colour.

Then, of course, you get into the issue of identifying what a "white" person is and explaining why white isn't a color.  As I say, it always ends in a muddle because we are trying to describe things that don't actually exist except as social constructs.

I don't object to shorthand like "persons of color" if it means "people who actually suffer from the effects of racism," but I oppose the idea that any given individual can claim or be given the label.  We can work to eliminate the disadvantages suffered by persons of color, but we shouldn't single out the accomplishments of individuals and note that they are because of, or in spite of, that person being a POC.