TV/Movies Megathread

[celedhring]

What I find interesting about the entire Netflix business thing is that they were founded on the basic premise that the people creating content should not necessarily be the exclusive delivery mechanism for that content.

IE, the business model is based on the fundamental concept of divorcing content creation from content delivery. Absent that model, Netflix doesn't exist.

But now? We've come full circle back to exactly that, except that it is Netflix and Amazon and HBO creating the content rather than NBC, CBS, and ABC. And once they create it, they own it exclusively and jealously.

There has been a lot of change of course, but it seems at the end of the day that change becomes tactical rather than strategic. The fundamental business model seems to have returned to where it started.

NBC, CBS, movie studios, etc... generally don't create content themselves either. Disney is the sole remaining studio - besides some cables - that has significant in-house production. They are distributors who pay others to produce content for them. Content distribution has been divorced from content creation since more or less the 1970s, when Old Hollywood finally croaked.

[Berkut]

What I find interesting about the entire Netflix business thing is that they were founded on the basic premise that the people creating content should not necessarily be the exclusive delivery mechanism for that content.

Well I guess so...insofar as Blockbuster was founded for that same premise.

Not sure, if that's a correct characterization though. Was it so philosophically minded or was it simply that we can make money getting people to get dvds via mail rather than at a brick and mortar?

I am not talking about their DVD delivery business though, which seems pretty fucking obvious.

So you are talking about the founding of a business that wasn't their actual founding? When did this mythical event happen? I would guess that when they started streaming it was actually from the similar thought of their DVD business.

Basically, I'm politely calling bullshit on the notion that they were founded on the basic premise that you noted.

OK, Raz.

I am rather obviously talking about their streaming business, not the DVD mailing businesses that they don't even fucking do anymore.

Congratulations on catching me out in my "bullshit" by noting that the company called Netflix was actually started doing something that we are not actually talking about. Kudos to you, you are so freaking smart, and you have added immensely to our discussion.

[garbon]

What I find interesting about the entire Netflix business thing is that they were founded on the basic premise that the people creating content should not necessarily be the exclusive delivery mechanism for that content.

Well I guess so...insofar as Blockbuster was founded for that same premise.

Not sure, if that's a correct characterization though. Was it so philosophically minded or was it simply that we can make money getting people to get dvds via mail rather than at a brick and mortar?

I am not talking about their DVD delivery business though, which seems pretty fucking obvious.

So you are talking about the founding of a business that wasn't their actual founding? When did this mythical event happen? I would guess that when they started streaming it was actually from the similar thought of their DVD business.

Basically, I'm politely calling bullshit on the notion that they were founded on the basic premise that you noted.

OK, Raz.

I am rather obviously talking about their streaming business, not the DVD mailing businesses that they don't even fucking do anymore.

Congratulations on catching me out in my "bullshit" by noting that the company called Netflix was actually started doing something that we are not actually talking about. Kudos to you, you are so freaking smart, and you have added immensely to our discussion.

Actually what is happening here is you are focusing in on my mention of DVDs and then failing to defend your notion that at some point they were founded on that premise.

Let's restart discussion with you saying they founded their streaming business on basic premise 'that the people creating content should not necessarily be the exclusive delivery mechanism for that content. ' I don't really see how that's true insofar that their streaming really started as an outgrowth of their DVD model which was really just an internet facilitated way of video rentals. Joan and Cel's posts really underline that as well.

Rather than personal attacks, perhaps you could just concede that indeed their basic premise [for streaming] wasn't really what you said it was.

[Berkut]

How about I just not engage in idiotic discussion with you instead?

[Berkut]

What I find interesting about the entire Netflix business thing is that they were founded on the basic premise that the people creating content should not necessarily be the exclusive delivery mechanism for that content.

IE, the business model is based on the fundamental concept of divorcing content creation from content delivery. Absent that model, Netflix doesn't exist.

But now? We've come full circle back to exactly that, except that it is Netflix and Amazon and HBO creating the content rather than NBC, CBS, and ABC. And once they create it, they own it exclusively and jealously.

There has been a lot of change of course, but it seems at the end of the day that change becomes tactical rather than strategic. The fundamental business model seems to have returned to where it started.

NBC, CBS, movie studios, etc... generally don't create content themselves either. Disney is the sole remaining studio - besides some cables - that has significant in-house production. They are distributors who pay others to produce content for them. Content distribution has been divorced from content creation since more or less the 1970s, when Old Hollywood finally croaked.

They may not be the ones who actually do the physical work of creating the content, but they certainly own it and it was created under their ownership...

Netflix STREAMING was taking that and re-selling it, which was certainly a new idea at the time. Not, of course, entirely new - there were cable channels for example that did re-runs under license. And I imagine other methods for things like that.

But the idea of being able to do so on demand, and over the internet was a game changer from a delivery standpoint. What I find interesting is that we are circling back to that original concept of the content delivery people having tight control over content creation - this is not what was being predicted just a few years ago.

[Berkut]

Netflix was founded at a time when content ownership and control was highly diffuse and the cable oligopolies were in the dominant position.  Content owners had to go through cable to get distribution.  The only other route was rental or sale of individual shows/movies directly to consumers, and so that's where a new entrant like Netflix went. 

The two key developments were: (1) HBO pioneered the idea of creating premium IP that consumers would insist on having access to, thus giving the more valuable content owners better leverage against the cable players, (2) once streaming becomes a robust way for a consumer to receive content, then in theory there is an alternative to cable distribution.  In the past couple of years cord cutting is becoming more attractive as an option; I also expect that cable with its expensive bundling is training a young generation to avoid it just as the music labels trained a generation of kids to stop buying CDs and pay for downloads.  Distribution is being disrupted and the oligopolies are in trouble.

Indeed - and what I find interesting is that the ways in which they end up in trouble are often very hard to predict.

Right now, to use your music analogy, it would be as if iTunes started "owning" stars again - that rather than Taylor Swift being signed to some record label, she just signs with iTtunes instead (which obviously isn't really happening). That is what we are seeing (for the moment at least) with Netflix and Prime and HBO.

The prediction when this disruption first really took hold was that content creation for TV would look more like music content creation, where those creating the content are truly divorced from the delivery mechanism, but actually the opposite is happening. Now if you want to watch Stranger Things, you have to have Netflix.

[garbon]

How about I just not engage in idiotic discussion with you instead?

Yeah, if you want to be that way, sure. Feel free to have the non-idiotic discussion where others point out that your position is flawed.

[The Brain]

How about I just not engage in idiotic discussion with you instead?

Maybe you guys should go straight to the chill.

[garbon]

How about I just not engage in idiotic discussion with you instead?

Maybe you guys should go straight to the chill.

No, I'll go back to not writing on any points where I disagree with him. I momentarily forgot you can't disagree with Berk without being idiotic / cursing at you for no apparent reason.

[Berkut]

How about I just not engage in idiotic discussion with you instead?

Maybe you guys should go straight to the chill.

No, I'll go back to not writing on any points where I disagree with him. I momentarily forgot you can't disagree with Berk without being idiotic / cursing at you for no apparent reason.

You can if you have the common courtesy of actually trying to engage in discussion with what people are actually saying instead of playing childish "gotcha" strawman bullshit that makes Languish such a chore because people like you think that somehow scores points.

But really, I may be a dick about it, but I've conceded your victory. You totally caught me because I didn't make it clear I was talking about streaming, and Netflix was in fact founded on sending people DVDs in the mail. You win, I am stupid, and you are super smart. Congratulations.

[LaCroix]

gj on your victory, garbon

[Eddie Teach]

Garbon! Garbon!

[Habbaku]

50 points for Garbondor!

[garbon]

How about I just not engage in idiotic discussion with you instead?

Maybe you guys should go straight to the chill.

No, I'll go back to not writing on any points where I disagree with him. I momentarily forgot you can't disagree with Berk without being idiotic / cursing at you for no apparent reason.

You can if you have the common courtesy of actually trying to engage in discussion with what people are actually saying instead of playing childish "gotcha" strawman bullshit that makes Languish such a chore because people like you think that somehow scores points.

But really, I may be a dick about it, but I've conceded your victory. You totally caught me because I didn't make it clear I was talking about streaming, and Netflix was in fact founded on sending people DVDs in the mail. You win, I am stupid, and you are super smart. Congratulations.

It wasn't a gotcha and I wasn't trying to score points. Nor was I trying to flaunt some intellectual superiority.

My point is I don't think at any point did they actually make a conscious decision to have a streaming service based on the basic premise you mentioned. I don't see any evidence for your assertion and considering the company's earlier history, I would think any evidence suggests that isn't why they started the service.

[Berkut]

My point is I don't think at any point did they actually make a conscious decision to have a streaming service based on the basic premise you mentioned. I don't see any evidence for your assertion and considering the company's earlier history, I would think any evidence suggests that isn't why they started the service.

I was not saying they did it as some kind of "philosophical" thing though - they did it because they could and it was cheap. Obviously they kind of stumbled into it altogether.

But that isn't really my basic point - how they came to the spot where they were changing how content was delivered isn't the interesting part - the fact that once there we appear to be going back to a model under which Netflix could never have become what it is to begin with is what is interesting. At least, it is interesting to me.

It basically took Netflix to prove that your content is really valuable, and you should not sell it to companies like Netflix.