England - the least patriotic country in Europe

[Gups]

Just to back up my earlier post with something a bit more than anecdotal see

http://soccerlens.com/football-rivalry/10301/

Football Fans Census did a poll of close to 3,000 fans in this country on the topic of rivalry, looking at which teams regard each other as their main rival, the derogatory names for their most hated rivals and the reasons behind the rivalries forming, with rather interesting findings.

....

Over three-quarters of fans would rather thrash their rivals than beat them with a last minute winner, and three-quarters of fans would support the opposition if their main rivals were playing in Europe. Following a supposed need to 'support English teams in Europe', I'm glad so many people can be honest and confess. A sad 9% have said they would support their main rival.

[Agelastus]

I know a lot of Liverpool fans. Not a single one of them would support Man Utd in any European match. I'd be surprised if they weren't in the overwhelming majority. The reverse is also true.

Support of the big teams is a lot more diffuse in the country, and the responses of the self-identified fans may not reflect majority opinion.

Still, you may be right. I don't think I'm in that much of a minority though, anecdotal evidence being the viewing figures for European cup finals involving an English team.

I know even more England fans and not one of them would support Scotland, except against Germany and Argentina. I think this is a relatively new development (i.e since the 80s) as I do recall people supporting Scotland in the 78 World Cup.

I think the only way we'll know if this is a long term trend or just a blip is if Scotland (or Wales or Northern Ireland) qualify for the World Cup and England doesn't. In those circumstances I will quite happily cheer for Scotland, and I am hopeful the rest of England would as well.

And as a final comment, using football as the benchmark for support of other "Home Nation" teams abroad may be unwise. While football is the biggest such sport, it is not the only such sport - and football is probably the most "tribal" sport in terms of its fans in the country.

[Admiral Yi]

Gups, surely you're not suggesting that the English view Scotland or Wales as their main rival in international fodbol.

[Brazen]

Gups, surely you're not suggesting that the English view Scotland or Wales as their main rival in international fodbol.

Depends - association or rugby?

[Admiral Yi]

Depends - association or rugby?

Fodbol refers specifically to association.

[Gups]

Gups, surely you're not suggesting that the English view Scotland or Wales as their main rival in international fodbol.

Of course not. Wales haven't qualified for a major tournament since the 50s and Scotland have been dreadful for a decade or more. England fans see Germany and Argentina as their main rivals but would support any other team against Scotland. I think this is largely a result of decades of Scottish hatred towards us. Wales just aren't important enough to care about one way or the other - personally I'd like them to do well but I don't know if this is a general view.

[Alatriste]

And that's probably the reason nutty separatists want their own 'national' teams... oddly enough, when told the plain truth, that having four teams has led to England having got no titles in the last 45 years (and the 1966 World Cup is the only first class title England ever got) and to Scotland, Wales and North Ireland being mere stooges, they go ballistic!

Do "they" really go ballistic? I'm surprised - a look of incredulity would be more apropriate.  The fact is it's made no difference at all.  How many Scottish players would get into the England team right now? Can you even name any without googling? We'd have to go back to the late 70s to find a time when more than one non-English player could get into the team and Giggs wouldn't have made all that much difference.

Well they mainly go ballistic because they absolutely hated "their" football fans partying with red t-shirts and Spanish flags in 2008 (that was also painfully evident when our basketball team won the World Championship, by the way... what an awful sight for them, Catalans like the  Gasol brothers partying with players from Andalusia and Madrid like Reyes and Garbajosa!)   

No, I'm not joking.

The other points that make them rage are

- by implication, that suggests Catalonian and Basque teams would be stooges too... when they dream of duplicating Barcelona's triumphs (that Barça has got Argentinians like Messi, French like Henry, Swedes like Ibrahimovic, Brazilians like Alves, etc, etc, somehow gets forgotten... if you remember them that they would be playing against all of Germany or Italy with only half Barça, and not the best one, results aren't pretty)

- They very much would choose to be hanged separately over hanging together. Saying to them that it is better to win all together just infuriates them. 

@Viking

We already got two titles... 1964 and 2008 

And the funniest part is, Catalan and Basque separatists are against Andalusia, Castile, Valencia or Galicia having their own teams because that means Catalonia and Euskadi wouldn't play against Spain. Get it? If every region gets a team then their cunning plan misfires.   

[Gups]

OK, actually I thought you were talking about England fans going ballistic, hence my surprise.

[Brazen]

It is somewhat interesting that in a discussion about patriotism, the British immediately discuss sport. I'd suspect in the US it would be more about supporting military operations and flying Old Glory in the front yard.

Obviously the rest of Europe would think of it in the context of national holidays, street parades and silly national costumes

[Josquius]

I think the only way we'll know if this is a long term trend or just a blip is if Scotland (or Wales or Northern Ireland) qualify for the World Cup and England doesn't. In those circumstances I will quite happily cheer for Scotland, and I am hopeful the rest of England would as well.

And as a final comment, using football as the benchmark for support of other "Home Nation" teams abroad may be unwise. While football is the biggest such sport, it is not the only such sport - and football is probably the most "tribal" sport in terms of its fans in the country.

hmm...Scotland I'm not so sure.
But I do remember back in 94 most of the country were Ireland fans.

[Valmy]

England, Scotland, and Wales are countries now?  Does that mean I can call Texas a country to? 

[Brazen]

England, Scotland, and Wales are countries now?  Does that mean I can call Texas a country to? 

Always have been, always will be.

And not since 1845.

[Valmy]

Always have been, always will be.

So I guess the United States should recall our ambassador to the obviously fictional "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland' and send three ambassadors to these three countries?

[Eddie Teach]

Texas is country, it's just not a country.

[Valmy]

Texas is country, it's just not a country.

Well except for those areas that are part of the three of the largest cities in the United States...