Game Changing Weapons of the Third Reich

[Ape]

The problem with the He-280 was that it wasn't as good an airframe as the Me-262, and the long pole in the tent was producing a reliable and powerful jet engine (by which time the Me-262 was available and clearly the superior aircraft).

I would agree that the -280 could have been produced on a "good enough" basis far earlier than the -262.  The interesting result might have been an acceleration of the development process for the jet engines, because the Luftwaffe would have gotten widespread operation experience with them; another possible outcome, of course, would be the abandonment of the jet program entirely if the -280 program proved a severe disappointment.

No doubt about it, and I never said to abandon the Me-262. But as you say it was a "good enough" for the time, having German jetfighters available  in early 43 contrary to late 44 could potentially keep the strategic bombing campaign from destroying the Luftwaffe late -43.

And as you said it would increase experience in jetfighters among the pilots that when the Me-262 comes around the retraining of pilots will not be as harsh.

Definityly more bloody for the WAllies both in the airwar and later after overlord with not as much allied airpower available to attrition the German forces in Normandy with constant airattacks.

Winnable for Germany? Doubt that little change would make it so as the war was won and lost in the east, but it would level the odds somewhat.

[Ed Anger]

Everybody forgets the Schwimmwagen.

[grumbler]

No doubt about it, and I never said to abandon the Me-262. But as you say it was a "good enough" for the time, having German jetfighters available  in early 43 contrary to late 44 could potentially keep the strategic bombing campaign from destroying the Luftwaffe late -43.

What I said was that it could have been produced on a "good enough" basis, but I didn't say that it would necessarily be good enough.  It is possible that the -280 by itself would be enough to destroy the Luftwaffe by late '43, without much Allied help.

And as you said it would increase experience in jetfighters among the pilots that when the Me-262 comes around the retraining of pilots will not be as harsh.

Or, the opposite.

Definityly more bloody for the WAllies both in the airwar and later after overlord with not as much allied airpower available to attrition the German forces in Normandy with constant airattacks.

Or, perhaps, more aircraft available for interdiction and ground force attrition because of the Allied move away from the strategic bombing campaign, plus more Allied troops available due to the earlier Allied win in the Battle of the Atlantic (using the LR planes that could not longer fly over Germany).

Winnable for Germany? Doubt that little change would make it so as the war was won and lost in the east, but it would level the odds somewhat.

Or, make the odds worse.  That is the problems with these kinds of "what-if"s:  the Allied Bombing Offensive was, in fact, a misuse of Allied resources.  Had the Germans precluded that waste, they might have been harmed more than helped. 

Plus, a German decision to send a plane into the sky with no legs and an unreliable engine may have done the cause of Luftwaffe jet fighters (and the Luftwaffe as a whole) more harm than good.

It is just so hard to say - certainly much harder than arguing for the Me-262 to be commissioned a year early.

[Caliga]

Everybody forgets the Schwimmwagen.

Not to mention the Himmelstürmer.  German rocket troops FTL 

[Malthus]

Ironically enough, the search for a "game changing weapon" was one thing that did the German cause more harm than good - constantly searching for improved weaponry wasted resources better spent in making large numbers of the weapons that they already had.

This is very visible with tanks - constant upgrades made some awesome tanks (when they worked, which was not always) - but the allies had many, many more not-so-awesome tanks.

[Caliga]

Disagree, the Germans would have won the war if only they had been able to deploy some Ratte land cruisers. 

[Caliga]

Anyway, the more I read about Hitler's obsession with wonder weapons, the more convinced I become that Hitler was an early prototype of Tim.

[Malthus]

Anyway, the more I read about Hitler's obsession with wonder weapons, the more convinced I become that Hitler was an early prototype of Tim.

There are some differences, surely.















For example, Hitler was a vegitarian.

[Malthus]

On a serious note - someone remarked (I think it was Keegan) that the more the war turned against Hitler, the more obsessed he became by military minutae - perhaps as a stress reliever.

[Ape]

Anyway, the more I read about Hitler's obsession with wonder weapons, the more convinced I become that Hitler was an early prototype of Tim.

There are some differences, surely.


For example, Hitler was a vegitarian.

Hitler had a girlfriend 

[Malthus]

Anyway, the more I read about Hitler's obsession with wonder weapons, the more convinced I become that Hitler was an early prototype of Tim.

There are some differences, surely.


For example, Hitler was a vegitarian.

Hitler had a girlfriend 

Nasty. 

[Caliga]

But the similarities are striking.  For example, Hitler was obsessed with King Kong, which is essentially an animated monster movie... I see a strong parallel with Tim's love of anime.  Similarly, Tim is obsessed with Turtledove, and Hitler was obsessed with just-as-ludicrious alternate histories of the world such as the Aryan racial ancestor theories.  Finally, Tim has a bum leg, and Hitler had a bum ball.

I truly believe that if Hitler were resurrected and became a Languishite, he would end every post with  and would post a glut of news articles that he found APOLEING. 

[jimmy olsen]

Anyway, the more I read about Hitler's obsession with wonder weapons, the more convinced I become that Hitler was an early prototype of Tim.

There are some differences, surely.















For example, Hitler was a vegitarian.

Off to the camps with you.

[Ed Anger]

But the similarities are striking.  For example, Hitler was obsessed with King Kong, which is essentially an animated monster movie... I see a strong parallel with Tim's love of anime.  Similarly, Tim is obsessed with Turtledove, and Hitler was obsessed with just-as-ludicrious alternate histories of the world such as the Aryan racial ancestor theories.  Finally, Tim has a bum leg, and Hitler had a bum ball.

I truly believe that if Hitler were resurrected and became a Languishite, he would end every post with  and would post a glut of news articles that he found APOLEING. 

PDH wants a paper on that in two weeks.

[Malthus]

Off to the camps with you.

Of all the shit being slung at you, you find the most offensive is the insinuation you are not a vegitarian?