Why I hate fucking Catholic scumbags

[The Minsky Moment]

The Church's glass house is already just a mess of sharp glass shards and debris strewn around the remains of the foundation and supports.  They see no downside in continuing to throw stones.  Notwithstanding the bit about "he who is without sin" casting them.

[Martinus]

The only difference is one is more socially acceptable to others.

No, the main difference is that one is between consent adults, and the other involves abusing/hurting a child unable to give consent. I know you are trolling, but I meet with too much of such bullshit being spouted in Poland to let it pass.

[garbon]

The Pope sent her.

I'm not that innocent?

[Alcibiades]

Enough with baiting Martinus with faux homophobia, that's not going to work anymore, let's try to have a serious discussion here. 

Martinus, is your problem with the statement the fact that the Church is trying to change the subject?  Or do you seriously believe that homosexuality and paedophilia are not linked?

Both.

The alleged link between homosexuality and pedophilia is based in a series of fallacies and misconceptions about human sexuality, that are often exploited by homophobes out of ignorance or malice. The facts (which are statistically misinterpreted) are these:

1. Most psychologists and sexologists agree that pedophiles are not attracted exclusively to children of a single gender, but rather are attracted to both genders (I am using the word "pedophile" in a medical, not legal sense - this is obviously less true for ephebophiles, i.e. people attracted to post-pubescent teenagers - such people have "adult" sexual orientation).

2. Most pedophiles are men.

3. It is easier for pedophiles to gain access to children of the same sex as they are, because the society is segregating sexes of children in many occasions as a means of protecting them (for example, boyscouts, altar boys etc.). This means that statistically more pedophiliac sex assaults are committed by men on boys. On the other hand, single pedophile men are much less likely to be put in a position when they would have an easy unsupervised access to girls. Essentially, this means acts of "homosexual" pedophilia are a result of an opportunity rather than sexual attraction to male children (i.e. homosexuality). The situation is in a way similar to homosexual acts occurring in prisons and other male-only facilities.

4. This is pure speculation, but I would not be surprised if many pedophiles actually experiment with homosexuality at some point, when they realize they are not interested in adult people of the opposite sex, as a sort of coping mechanism/desperate attempt to find a legal way of sexual expression for themselves. Once they become unsatisfied with it, they turn to pedophilia eventually, but this may mean that they would be regarded as "gay" despite not being of homosexual orientation.

Not to mention, even if for the sake of argument, one would call these men "homosexual", and whereas such men make more than half of pedophiles, the total percentage of such men among the populace of gay men is still miniscule and does not warrant considering gay men unfit to work with children etc. Again, this is something you should understand as an actuary - only because A is relatively more likely than B to have a trait X, it does not necessarily mean that A is objectively likely to have that trait.

TL:DR Marty's a fag.

[dps]

I don't think either homosexuality or celibacy  is really a cause of the problems the Catholic Church is experiencing.  The problem is that those who have an inclination to prey on children are going to be drawn to professions where:  1) they work with children, and 2) where they are seen as authority figures.  Compared to other positions where both of those are true, I think that the nature of the Catholic priesthood does make it easier and more attractive to pedophiles, since it probably makes it harder to get caught.

[Barrister]

I don't think either homosexuality or celibacy  is really a cause of the problems the Catholic Church is experiencing.  The problem is that those who have an inclination to prey on children are going to be drawn to professions where:  1) they work with children, and 2) where they are seen as authority figures.  Compared to other positions where both of those are true, I think that the nature of the Catholic priesthood does make it easier and more attractive to pedophiles, since it probably makes it harder to get caught.

I have heard this theory before (although more generally, and not specifically when talking about the Catholic Church), and I'm still not sure I buy it...

[Razgovory]

The only difference is one is more socially acceptable to others.

No, the main difference is that one is between consent adults, and the other involves abusing/hurting a child unable to give consent. I know you are trolling, but I meet with too much of such bullshit being spouted in Poland to let it pass.

Yes, because it's between consenting adults it's considered socially acceptable.  If we considered children able to give consent then it is likely that pedophilia would be socially acceptable.  It is but a social construct, a quirk of fate that one is socially acceptable and the other not.  Due to the similarities between them and likely a shared root cause you find the odd situation where the same person will  claim that pedophilia is something to be cured while militantly claiming homosexuality can not be cured.

[Malthus]

I don't think either homosexuality or celibacy  is really a cause of the problems the Catholic Church is experiencing.  The problem is that those who have an inclination to prey on children are going to be drawn to professions where:  1) they work with children, and 2) where they are seen as authority figures.  Compared to other positions where both of those are true, I think that the nature of the Catholic priesthood does make it easier and more attractive to pedophiles, since it probably makes it harder to get caught.

I have heard this theory before (although more generally, and not specifically when talking about the Catholic Church), and I'm still not sure I buy it...

I have no idea if in fact Catholic priests are more statistically likely to be pedophiles than the general population, or indeed than other religious authority figures. It may be the case, I simply don't know.

Nonetheless, the frequency of Catholic priests being abusers isn't the cause of the Church's current problems.

The cause of the Church's problems is the reactions of the Church, as an institution, to priestly abusers, not the fact that many priests are abusers.

Though that being said, it seems to make intuitive sense that a position of trust in which the position-holder is supposed to not have ordinary sexual relations is tailor-made for abusers. While some pedophiles can have normal sexual relations (and their partner not notice their "extracuricular" activities), many cannot; having a partner complicates the task of abuse (your wife/husband/whatever is likely to notice you are abusing kids), and in many traditional societies, lacking a partner would draw notice.

[DGuller]

Man, I truly suck at trolling.  About 95%, I elicit no reaction at all.  The other 5% of the time, my troll starts a serious discussion. 

[The Brain]

Man, I truly suck at trolling.  About 95%, I elicit no reaction at all.  The other 5% of the time, my troll starts a serious discussion. 

Troll?

[Razgovory]

Man, I truly suck at trolling.  About 95%, I elicit no reaction at all.  The other 5% of the time, my troll starts a serious discussion. 

You should watch what Grumbler does and do that.  His trolls work because he honestly doesn't think he's doing it.  It's so natural it's subconscious.   Admittedly he has more practice.  The first forum he trolled was a Roman Forum.  His comebacks are weaker though.  It's usually some variation of "I know you are, but what am I".

[DGuller]

Admittedly he has more practice.  The first forum he trolled was a Roman Forum.

[Queequeg]

Admittedly he has more practice.  The first forum he trolled was a Roman Forum.

Scipio took it up the ass!

[Barrister]

You should watch what Grumbler does and do that.  His trolls work because he honestly doesn't think he's doing it.

I don't believe that for a second.

[crazy canuck]

Enough with baiting Martinus with faux homophobia, that's not going to work anymore...

If you had just waited a bit longer he would have come through.