Newly powerful China defies Western nations

Started by jimmy olsen, March 15, 2010, 09:44:58 AM

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Siege

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 16, 2010, 01:53:46 PM
Quote from: Siege on March 16, 2010, 01:46:33 PM
My question is, how can somebody deal with such a blunder. How can that guy still be alive. The guy single-handlely responsible for America getting caught with her pants down. I think I would have done the honorable thing and volunteer for some suicide mission and go down in flames with as many imperial japanese bastards as possible, and even that would not clear my conciouness.

Because he's a civilized person and not a barbarian who worships machismo-disguised-as-honor?

You fail at trolling.

Go back to Jaron's school.




"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


Siege

Quote from: Neil on March 16, 2010, 02:00:49 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 16, 2010, 01:53:46 PM
Quote from: Siege on March 16, 2010, 01:46:33 PM
My question is, how can somebody deal with such a blunder. How can that guy still be alive. The guy single-handlely responsible for America getting caught with her pants down. I think I would have done the honorable thing and volunteer for some suicide mission and go down in flames with as many imperial japanese bastards as possible, and even that would not clear my conciouness.
Because he's a civilized person and not a barbarian who worships machismo-disguised-as-honor?
It helped that Pearl Harbour didn't really matter in terms of the conduct of the war.

It mattered to the people that died that day, you heartless piece of shit.



"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


Siege

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 16, 2010, 01:54:32 PM
Quote from: Siege on March 16, 2010, 01:46:33 PM
The guy single-handlely responsible

Kimmel and Short will be thrilled to hear the news.

I have no idea who those people are.



"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


Eddie Teach

Quote from: Siege on March 16, 2010, 02:02:38 PM
You fail at trolling.

That's fine, considering it was a serious response. People screw up, they deal with it and hopefully don't make the same mistake again(but usually do). They don't kill themselves from shame.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Ed Anger

Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

Agelastus

Quote from: Siege on March 16, 2010, 02:05:07 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 16, 2010, 01:54:32 PM
Quote from: Siege on March 16, 2010, 01:46:33 PM
The guy single-handlely responsible

Kimmel and Short will be thrilled to hear the news.

I have no idea who those people are.

The officers in command of the base and fleet at Pearl Harbor. In other words, the people who should have been making sure Pearl Harbor was alert and able to defend itself in a time of intense international tension.
"Come grow old with me
The Best is yet to be
The last of life for which the first was made."

Berkut

Quote from: Agelastus on March 16, 2010, 02:25:35 PM
Quote from: Siege on March 16, 2010, 02:05:07 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 16, 2010, 01:54:32 PM
Quote from: Siege on March 16, 2010, 01:46:33 PM
The guy single-handlely responsible

Kimmel and Short will be thrilled to hear the news.

I have no idea who those people are.

The officers in command of the base and fleet at Pearl Harbor. In other words, the people who should have been making sure Pearl Harbor was alert and able to defend itself in a time of intense international tension.

WTF man, it was Sunday!
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Agelastus

Quote from: Berkut on March 16, 2010, 02:30:44 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on March 16, 2010, 02:25:35 PM
Quote from: Siege on March 16, 2010, 02:05:07 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 16, 2010, 01:54:32 PM
Quote from: Siege on March 16, 2010, 01:46:33 PM
The guy single-handlely responsible

Kimmel and Short will be thrilled to hear the news.

I have no idea who those people are.

The officers in command of the base and fleet at Pearl Harbor. In other words, the people who should have been making sure Pearl Harbor was alert and able to defend itself in a time of intense international tension.

WTF man, it was Sunday!

As has been demonstrably proven, wars start on Sundays as well. And given the most probable enemy for the defenders of Pearl Harbor was not a Christian nation and thus could not be expected to have any special attachment to Sunday, then said commanders become even more culpable for their failure, not less.
"Come grow old with me
The Best is yet to be
The last of life for which the first was made."

Neil

Quote from: Siege on March 16, 2010, 02:03:54 PM
It mattered to the people that died that day, you heartless piece of shit.
People die in war.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

grumbler

Quote from: Agelastus on March 16, 2010, 02:49:17 PM
As has been demonstrably proven, wars start on Sundays as well. And given the most probable enemy for the defenders of Pearl Harbor was not a Christian nation and thus could not be expected to have any special attachment to Sunday, then said commanders become even more culpable for their failure, not less.
Somebody's sarcasm meter needs looking at!  :lol:

The defenses were no more or less ready the previous day.

The problem was a mindset that "knew" where the Japanese were striking, combined with poor communications at the base (had anyone known about both the radar hits and the submarine sighting/sinking, he might have concluded that this was an attack).  The fact that the patrol planes had seen nothing added to the sense of security.

Luckily, as Neil noted, the Japanese attack didn't actually change anything. Only fourteen ships were even hit, and only three (one of them a non-combattant) actually sunk.  The loss of lives was unfortunate, but then, this was war and lives would have been lost had everyone been at GQ.  In a way, more lives might have been lost had those poor pilots actually scrambled those deathtraps against the Japanese.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Kleves

Quote from: Agelastus on March 16, 2010, 02:25:35 PM
The officers in command of the base and fleet at Pearl Harbor. In other words, the people who should have been making sure Pearl Harbor was alert and able to defend itself in a time of intense international tension.
I don't see how you can blame them. They didn't even lose a single plane to sabotage!
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

Agelastus

Quote from: grumbler on March 16, 2010, 04:43:04 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on March 16, 2010, 02:49:17 PM
As has been demonstrably proven, wars start on Sundays as well. And given the most probable enemy for the defenders of Pearl Harbor was not a Christian nation and thus could not be expected to have any special attachment to Sunday, then said commanders become even more culpable for their failure, not less.
Somebody's sarcasm meter needs looking at!  :lol:

The defenses were no more or less ready the previous day.


Materially, no (although I suspect that the number of personnel on leave was higher at the weekend than during the week - I can recall reading that somewhere, but I have no clue of the reference now.) I suspect the mindset may have been even less alert on a Sunday morning than on any other day for precisely the reason Siege posted.

And besides, despite the sarcasm, Short and Kimmel were certainly culpable. They got caught with their "pants down", as it were.

Of course, MacArthur and the rest of the Phillippines command had even less excuse for Clark Field.
"Come grow old with me
The Best is yet to be
The last of life for which the first was made."

jimmy olsen

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 16, 2010, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Martim Silva on March 16, 2010, 08:59:33 AM
How often does China meddles with other countries' internal affairs?

+ War against India
+ War against Vietnam
+ Sponsorship and armed support of the khmer rouge in Cambodia
+ War in Korea
+ Continued backing for North Korean regime
+ 60+ year military confrontation and subversion vs. Taiwan
+ Naval attacks on Vietnam in South China Sea
+ military, economic and diplomatic support of Burmese junta
+ State purchases of vast resource blocs and establishment of state enterprise colonies in many African nations such as: Anglola, Equitorial Guinea, Congo, and most notably the Sudan, where China also supplied the military equipment used by the butchers of Darfur to facilitate their genocide and then blocked UN response through its Security Council veto.

I assume this question was meant as some sort of ironic joke.
+ Conquest of Tibet
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
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CountDeMoney

Quote from: Berkut on March 16, 2010, 02:30:44 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on March 16, 2010, 02:25:35 PM
Quote from: Siege on March 16, 2010, 02:05:07 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 16, 2010, 01:54:32 PM
Quote from: Siege on March 16, 2010, 01:46:33 PM
The guy single-handlely responsible

Kimmel and Short will be thrilled to hear the news.

I have no idea who those people are.

The officers in command of the base and fleet at Pearl Harbor. In other words, the people who should have been making sure Pearl Harbor was alert and able to defend itself in a time of intense international tension.

WTF man, it was Sunday!

Yeah, but NFL Gameday hadn't even been invented yet, so there was no excuse.

Sheilbh

My understanding is that the Chinese government's internally tightening the vice a bit on Western companies.  For example in Shenzhen or Guangzhou (I forget which) which is apparently used as a test ground for Chinese law they want to make unionisation compulsory in all foreign enterprises with more than 10 employees and they've recently made collective bargaining a requirement in the already unionised joint foreign-Chinese ventures.  If nothing else that will add at least 2% to a companies' labour costs but is also a way for the Chinese government to become far more involved if they so choose.

On a global scale I think the past year or two's been very interesting.  It's shown that the 'league of democracies' idea is absurd as, on most issues, Brazil, India and other democratic developing countries have far more in common, in terms of interests, with China than the US or UK.  At the same time I think there's a sense within the developing world - first exhibited at Copenhagen - that actually China isn't just another developing country.  The Chinese have, so far, been very successful at projecting an image of being both a developing nation and a great power.  I think recently the outside perception has shifted far more towards the latter - though both are, of course, true.  Linked to that is that I think the western press seems to be paying far more attention to what China's doing.  They've wanted to be seen as a great power for a long time, but the cost of that is a lot more attention.

This strikes me as a problem for the Chinese because they aren't very good at external PR.
Let's bomb Russia!