Neptune's Pride

[grumbler]

Meanwhile, Hive diplomats have inked an agreement with the Funkmonkians...designating them as the inheritor of their soon-to-be vacant star systems...even as the valiant Hive defenders attempt to hold off the Berkutian menace long enough for the citizen drones to escape to safety. [/i]"

Are you throwing the game to Funk?

I hate it when people do shit like that.  "Player X is successful!  Let's punish him by doing totally unrealistic things like surrendering to Y!"

[frunk]

How, and in what way, is that unrealistic?  To me that's a fundamental element of games of this stripe, which is why I don't play them that much.

[Agelastus]

Meanwhile, Hive diplomats have inked an agreement with the Funkmonkians...designating them as the inheritor of their soon-to-be vacant star systems...even as the valiant Hive defenders attempt to hold off the Berkutian menace long enough for the citizen drones to escape to safety. [/i]"

Are you throwing the game to Funk?

I hate it when people do shit like that.  "Player X is successful!  Let's punish him by doing totally unrealistic things like surrendering to Y!"

Yes, at least I'm fighting to the last ship.

On the other hand, given the frantic buildup of my core systems to prolong the fight, there's going to be some really juicy prizes for Ulmont and/or Szmik to pick up, so Berkut may want to turn some of his attention west before it is too late...

[Berkut]

How, and in what way, is that unrealistic?  To me that's a fundamental element of games of this stripe, which is why I don't play them that much.

I don't care if it is "unrealistic", it is un-fun. Ruining the game out of spite is lame, even for the person who ends up winning.

I suppose that quitting and throwing the game to someone else might be a fundmanental aspect of MP games - but it is hardly inevitable. People do not have to get all emo and act in this manner. I play in MP games all the time were people do not do this, in fact.

Funny that neither Jaron or Fireblade, the two supposed problem children of Languish MP, have not chosen to act in this manner, and they both got bent over by multiple attackers.

[Berkut]

The sad part is that Tonitrus is going to ragequit, and he is actually doing rather well - other than the two stars close to my space, he has turned back my invasion rather nicely.

Of course, at no point has he actually approached me about making any kind of deal...

[Grey Fox]

Wait for Toni to answer before jumping to conclusion.

[frunk]

It depends quite a lot on conditions.  In games like this if a player perceives themselves in a hopeless position they'll throw to an ally rather than let a bitter foe win.  This seems perfectly reasonable to me.  I can't judge directly how hopeless Tonitrus's position is, but it sounds like the game is reaching the end quickly.  From what I read he won't win regardless of what he does, I'd expect players playing kingmaker at that point.

[Berkut]

It depends quite a lot on conditions.  In games like this if a player perceives themselves in a hopeless position they'll throw to an ally rather than let a bitter foe win. 

No, in games like this *some* people will throw the game rather than play with integrity and a sense of sportsmanship. Don't pretend like this is something everyone does, or something that must happen, or even something that people should expect to happen.

While this may seem "perfectly reasonable" to you, I don't understand how anyone could find ruining the game "perfectly reasonable" although I suppose people have differing definitions of what they find reasonable. Unlike you, I would not find it at all perfectly reasonable for someone to throw me a win  though, not matter what the conditions were. If for no other reason than this: Winning in that manner is a lot less fun than losing, IMO, and at the end of the day, the game is about having fun. Like I said though, people have differing standards for what is important to them.

But like GF says, we should wait to see what Tonitrus has to say before jumping to conclusions. Although since I can see that part of the map, it sure looks like he is just abandoning his stars to be taken by you.

[ulmont]

No, in games like this *some* people will throw the game rather than play with integrity and a sense of sportsmanship. Don't pretend like this is something everyone does, or something that must happen, or even something that people should expect to happen.

I dunno; I thought the problem of people who cannot win picking an ultimate winner was inherent in the "Diplomacy" genre of games?

[Berkut]

No, in games like this *some* people will throw the game rather than play with integrity and a sense of sportsmanship. Don't pretend like this is something everyone does, or something that must happen, or even something that people should expect to happen.

I dunno; I thought the problem of people who cannot win picking an ultimate winner was inherent in the "Diplomacy" genre of games?

To some degree, sure. But abandoning the basic structure of the game to simply spite someone is not at all inherent.

This is like someone in HiS saying "I am losing, so in the diplo phase I am going to cede all my keys to the Hapsburgs! Oh look, they auto-win! Thanks for the game!"

That is perfectly legal, of course, and completely within the rules.

It isn't, IMO, ethical play however, and I would never play a game with someone who did something like that again. Beyond the fact that is lame, it simply ruins the game, and makes it not fun, and why play with someone who you know will just throw the game if things don't go their way? That isn't any fun.

[Grey Fox]

frunk != funkmonk

[frunk]

Yeah, uh, I'm not even involved in the game, hence my comment that I don't usually play this type of game.  All I have to go on is what is posted here.

[Tonitrus]

Not rage-quitting, or any spite.  In one week, I'm going out of country for nearly a month (didn't quite realize the time-scale of the game), so I will be out of it anyway.

Funkmonk has pretty much the one, honest-broker towards me in the game so far, so I gave him some concessions.  He offered me a significant tech jump-start(in his own interest, I am sure), and I basically gave up some mostly un-developed border systems to fight the more pressing threat (granted, Tegmen was a pretty good system, didn't honestly expect him to grab that one so quickly...I am a little irked at that  ).

It will hardly be "throwing the game" to one player, as more than likely Berkut will gobble up far more of me than Funk will be able to reach...and I intend to hold my "core" worlds as best I can until I leave....but with Berkut's tech advantage, it's pretty well futile.  After I am out of country, the AI will get it's shot.

[Berkut]

OK, fair enough. Nothing wrong with that at all, as long as there was some kind of deal involved.

The attack on you has shown how much the game favors the defense - it is surprising how hard it is to really apply a large tech and number advantage decisively if the defender is willing to just sit back and defend.

[FunkMonk]

Yes, I've taken six planets from Toni because he gave them to me. And all of a sudden I'm the bad guy?

Berkut, after it became obvious LaCroix quit the game, you quickly gobbled up all his planets, including the planets he would have otherwised colonized, essentially handing over to you an entire player's worth of stars for free. Yet I'm ruining the game?

Berkut, you outstrip everyone (including me) in economic and industrial production by quite a large margin, and soon you will overtake me in fleet size because I'm fighting Habbaku (who is mounting a very skilled and difficult defense). You managed to convince ulmont and Fireblade to stop fighting you, leaving you free to gobble up Tonitrus in a one-front war which he could not possibly win. Keep in mind Toni has me on his southern border; it's only a (small) amount of time before you're knocking on my doorstep.

I'm just trying to be realistic here. I don't want you to win so easily damnit.