Dozens held in Turkish 'coup plot'

[Razgovory]

Still, for historical accuracy, we conquered the slavs, not vice versa. Even they admit that much.

Who were those guys who ran your country from 1945 to 1989?  Displaced Bushmen?

[Queequeg]

Still, for historical accuracy, we conquered the slavs, not vice versa. Even they admit that much.

Magyar urheimat is part of Russia, you were part of Russian sphere for most of the last century, and frankly, you guys are Slavs with an agglutination fetish; the material distinction in the Dark Ages between Magyars, Turks and Slavs (who, remember, were always in contact with Steppe people anyway) is often quite difficult, and genetically there is no distinction.

[Tamas]

Still, for historical accuracy, we conquered the slavs, not vice versa. Even they admit that much.

Magyar urheimat is part of Russia, you were part of Russian sphere for most of the last century, and frankly, you guys are Slavs with an agglutination fetish; the material distinction in the Dark Ages between Magyars, Turks and Slavs (who, remember, were always in contact with Steppe people anyway) is often quite difficult, and genetically there is no distinction.

If we continue the derail:

Only second half of the last century. And one of the very national issues I would be willing to die for, is to avoid being a Russian vassal again.

That is a cornerstone of being a "magyar" I believe. The drive to fight against all ods pulling you the other direction, and remain part of the western cultural sphere.

As for national identity and genetics. I think it is very misleading and damaging to mix the two. Of course in my generation, there are only meager direct genetic "remains" of the steppe people who called themselves magyars and lived at the foot of the Ural mountains. There has been research regarding that. Does that matter in determining who a magyar is now? Hardly.
Nationality is entirely a cultural thing, I believe. And yes, Hungarians are the perfect example. Magyars, Slavs, Cumans, Turks, Germans etc. all ended up calling themselves Hungarian.

[Razgovory]

First you have to join the western Sphere.

[Martinus]

The only good thing Turks ever did was killing off Armenians. However they did not do a sufficiently good work of it, because they did not slaughter Queequeg's ancestors.

[Queequeg]

The only good thing Turks ever did was killing off Armenians. However they did not do a sufficiently good work of it, because they did not slaughter Queequeg's ancestors.

Neil is much better at this than you.  Give it up.

[katmai]

The only good thing Turks ever did was killing off Armenians. However they did not do a sufficiently good work of it, because they did not slaughter Queequeg's ancestors.

I didn't think he was actually Armenian, just has a hard on for them.

[Martinus]

The only good thing Turks ever did was killing off Armenians. However they did not do a sufficiently good work of it, because they did not slaughter Queequeg's ancestors.

I didn't think he was actually Armenian, just has a hard on for them.

Really? So he has a hard on for Turks, Armenians, Russians and Kanye West. Wtf.

[Queequeg]

Kanye West is nowhere near my favorite Hip-Hop artist, I just pointed out how retarded you were being. I listen to OutKast, Nas, The Roots, Wu-Tang and associated acts, and Public Enemy way more often.   

[The Minsky Moment]

Gutting the military is in the long term interest of Turkey; eventually the CHP will become more of a traditional European Social Democrat party, while the AKP becomes a Christian (read: Muslim) Democrat party. 

I hope you are right and maybe you are.  But I have a bad feeling you may be drinking the AKP Kool-Aid on this.  The AKP has been acting more and more suspiciously ever since their poll ratings and local election results have dipped.  First there were the separate waves of mass arrests over the so-called Ergenekon conspiracy and the alleged coup plot in 09.  The ratio of wild accusations to actual hard evidence of guilt was far too high for my taste.

Now we have a wave of yet even more mass arrests, with even more extreme allegations (including plots of terror bombings), and lots of rhetoric about kemalism and the deep state -- and again a lack of anything that looks like hard evidence.

Now perhaps it is just a coincidence that the AKP poll ratings have been in decline since their 07 triumph, with the most recent results showing a only a slim margin over the CHP.  But at first glance, it kind of looks like the AKP is trying to shore up its deflating popular standing and energize its base by politing to the big bad  Kemalist-militarist bogeyman.  It looks like a ruling party using its almost unchecked control over the instruments of governance abusing the criminal justice system to carry out vendettas against political opponents and carry more grist to its propaganda machine.  And if it looks like a duck, and it smells like a duck, then you are going to have to do a little more to convince me it's just a harmless lamb kebab.

[HVC]

To get back to the original derail, my people "discovered" half the world. so what. Who you are now is way more important then what you were.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Gutting the military is in the long term interest of Turkey; eventually the CHP will become more of a traditional European Social Democrat party, while the AKP becomes a Christian (read: Muslim) Democrat party. 

I hope you are right and maybe you are.  But I have a bad feeling you may be drinking the AKP Kool-Aid on this.  The AKP has been acting more and more suspiciously ever since their poll ratings and local election results have dipped.  First there were the separate waves of mass arrests over the so-called Ergenekon conspiracy and the alleged coup plot in 09.  The ratio of wild accusations to actual hard evidence of guilt was far too high for my taste.

Now we have a wave of yet even more mass arrests, with even more extreme allegations (including plots of terror bombings), and lots of rhetoric about kemalism and the deep state -- and again a lack of anything that looks like hard evidence.

Now perhaps it is just a coincidence that the AKP poll ratings have been in decline since their 07 triumph, with the most recent results showing a only a slim margin over the CHP.  But at first glance, it kind of looks like the AKP is trying to shore up its deflating popular standing and energize its base by politing to the big bad  Kemalist-militarist bogeyman.  It looks like a ruling party using its almost unchecked control over the instruments of governance abusing the criminal justice system to carry out vendettas against political opponents and carry more grist to its propaganda machine.  And if it looks like a duck, and it smells like a duck, then you are going to have to do a little more to convince me it's just a harmless lamb kebab.

hmph, it's the same sentiment as expressed by the correspondent of one of our major news-magazines. He's been living there for a decade I believe and he's not all that optimistic about the stuff the AKP is pulling.

[Tamas]

To get back to the original derail, my people "discovered" half the world. so what. Who you are now is way more important then what you were.

Indeed. And that is why right-wingers are so lame: the achievment they are most proud of in their life is the only single one thing they themselves had nothing to do with: where they were born.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Heh............I'm really looking forward to the Istanbul visit now; Tamas and Spellus are off to a great start 

@Queequeg.  One thing to watch out for is that Istanbul is not Turkey. I apologise for being so tautological; however......for decades now I have been assured by tourists and travellers that the divide lies somewhere in the middle of Anatolia. Istanbul and other western Turkish cities are little different to places like Athens, less alien perhaps than a place like Sofia or Bucharest. But, I am assured, rural places in Eastern Turkey can be some of the most unpleasant places on the planet 

[Razgovory]

To get back to the original derail, my people "discovered" half the world. so what. Who you are now is way more important then what you were.

Indeed. And that is why right-wingers are so lame: the achievment they are most proud of in their life is the only single one thing they themselves had nothing to do with: where they were born.

Don't know about you, but I planned out where I was going to be born before hand.  I don't jump headfirst into a situation with out research.