Canadian Politics - Proroguing? Again?

[Barrister]

I spoke with Paul Hinman, the Wild Rose member who was elected in a by-election in Calgary, when he was campaigning for that election.  He was a well spoken conservative and I didn't see much difference between his party and the regular Alberta conservative party.  Their party leader is also articulate and she seems to know what she is doing.  The seperatist thing isn't on their charts at all, like BB said, a fringe element attaching themselves to a new party for the exposure.

So if there's not much of a difference... what's the difference? 

Sometimes just being a different name is enough.  The Lougheed PCs weren't all that different from the Ernest Manning Social Credit Party (so much so that young turks Preston Manning and Joe Clark actually attempted to negotiate a merger - they failed).  Lougheed still managed to demolish the SoCreds in the early 70s.

On a slightly different basis there isn't much difference between the BC Liberal Party and the old BC SoCred Party - yet one replaced the other.

[Neil]

Apparently their schtick is a calculated ambiguity at this point.  Seem rational enough to be credible, but give just enough appeal to the crazies so they'll donate / volunteer.  Go after Stelmach for raising oil and gas royalties (apparently the oil patch is in a slump, and everyone at least knows someone who works in the patch).  A general right wing patter of lower taxes / no deficits.

I guess you're not in Alberta anymore so you don't have to decide if you're more Wild Rosy or whether you're a Con loyalist?  But what's your take?

Neil, what about you?

At first, I had dismissed the party as a far-right haven for libertarian weirdos (Link Byfield et al).  However, when they had the leadership election and Danielle Smith won, it seemed to signal that they were going to adopt centre-right policies that have been a hit with the Alberta electorate.

I would consider voting for them, although I haven't decided which party I would support yet.  It'll be 2-3 years until the next election.

[Neil]

I spoke with Paul Hinman, the Wild Rose member who was elected in a by-election in Calgary, when he was campaigning for that election.  He was a well spoken conservative and I didn't see much difference between his party and the regular Alberta conservative party.  Their party leader is also articulate and she seems to know what she is doing.  The seperatist thing isn't on their charts at all, like BB said, a fringe element attaching themselves to a new party for the exposure.

So if there's not much of a difference... what's the difference? 

Name change, different faces.  Stelmach has failed to demonstrate any charisma, his cabinet is full of empty suits and the economic slowdown has hurt everybody other than Harper.

[Fate]

What's their schtick?  That Harper and Stelmach aren't true enough to rightist/ reformist principles?  You figure there'll be real competition in the Alberta provincial scene anytime soon or will the Cons just edge a bit right and co-opt them?

Apparently their schtick is a calculated ambiguity at this point.  Seem rational enough to be credible, but give just enough appeal to the crazies so they'll donate / volunteer.  Go after Stelmach for raising oil and gas royalties (apparently the oil patch is in a slump, and everyone at least knows someone who works in the patch).  A general right wing patter of lower taxes / no deficits.

Does the right in Canada actually keep their no deficit promises when in power or is it merely campaign rhetoric like in the US?

[Barrister]

What's their schtick?  That Harper and Stelmach aren't true enough to rightist/ reformist principles?  You figure there'll be real competition in the Alberta provincial scene anytime soon or will the Cons just edge a bit right and co-opt them?

Apparently their schtick is a calculated ambiguity at this point.  Seem rational enough to be credible, but give just enough appeal to the crazies so they'll donate / volunteer.  Go after Stelmach for raising oil and gas royalties (apparently the oil patch is in a slump, and everyone at least knows someone who works in the patch).  A general right wing patter of lower taxes / no deficits.

Does the right in Canada actually keep their no deficit promises when in power or is it merely campaign rhetoric like in the US?

[Fate]

What's their schtick?  That Harper and Stelmach aren't true enough to rightist/ reformist principles?  You figure there'll be real competition in the Alberta provincial scene anytime soon or will the Cons just edge a bit right and co-opt them?

Apparently their schtick is a calculated ambiguity at this point.  Seem rational enough to be credible, but give just enough appeal to the crazies so they'll donate / volunteer.  Go after Stelmach for raising oil and gas royalties (apparently the oil patch is in a slump, and everyone at least knows someone who works in the patch).  A general right wing patter of lower taxes / no deficits.

Does the right in Canada actually keep their no deficit promises when in power or is it merely campaign rhetoric like in the US?

I suppose the answer is obvious: it's merely campaign rhetoric. Balanced budgets cannot be obtained from a party that holds up tax cuts as a holy grail.

[Barrister]

What's their schtick?  That Harper and Stelmach aren't true enough to rightist/ reformist principles?  You figure there'll be real competition in the Alberta provincial scene anytime soon or will the Cons just edge a bit right and co-opt them?

Apparently their schtick is a calculated ambiguity at this point.  Seem rational enough to be credible, but give just enough appeal to the crazies so they'll donate / volunteer.  Go after Stelmach for raising oil and gas royalties (apparently the oil patch is in a slump, and everyone at least knows someone who works in the patch).  A general right wing patter of lower taxes / no deficits.

Does the right in Canada actually keep their no deficit promises when in power or is it merely campaign rhetoric like in the US?

I suppose the answer is obvious: it's merely campaign rhetoric. Balanced budgets cannot be obtained from a party that holds up tax cuts as a holy grail.

[Fate]

What's their schtick?  That Harper and Stelmach aren't true enough to rightist/ reformist principles?  You figure there'll be real competition in the Alberta provincial scene anytime soon or will the Cons just edge a bit right and co-opt them?

Apparently their schtick is a calculated ambiguity at this point.  Seem rational enough to be credible, but give just enough appeal to the crazies so they'll donate / volunteer.  Go after Stelmach for raising oil and gas royalties (apparently the oil patch is in a slump, and everyone at least knows someone who works in the patch).  A general right wing patter of lower taxes / no deficits.

Does the right in Canada actually keep their no deficit promises when in power or is it merely campaign rhetoric like in the US?

I suppose the answer is obvious: it's merely campaign rhetoric. Balanced budgets cannot be obtained from a party that holds up tax cuts as a holy grail.

Your responses are as empty as a conservative governing philosophy. 

[Barrister]

[Jacob]

Name change, different faces.  Stelmach has failed to demonstrate any charisma, his cabinet is full of empty suits and the economic slowdown has hurt everybody other than Harper.

So essentially it's a leadership challenge, but it's easier to organize from the outside than inside.  Seems not entirely unreasonable.

[crazy canuck]

On a slightly different basis there isn't much difference between the BC Liberal Party and the old BC SoCred Party - yet one replaced the other.

There was a very big difference between the Socreds and the BC Liberals when the transition took place.  However, the predominant history of politics in BC is that when the centre and right parties split the vote the NPD will win, as it did when the Liberals and Socreds split the vote.  And so as happens historically in this province eventually the non NDP vote finds a home in one party.

The BC Liberals came from nowhere in the polls leading up to the election in which they formed the official opposition and the NDP formed government.  At that time the BC Liberals were very much a party of Liberals who had strong affiliations with the Federal party.

It was a huge shock that any of the Liberal members won seats never mind that they formed the opposition.  Most of their candidates had agreed to run for them because they knew there was no chance of winning (ie they didnt actually want to give up their day jobs).  Two years later, Gordon Wilson was removed as party leader by Gordon Campbell in a leadership convention.  Wilson then tried to form his own party and then jumped to the NDP a few years later (shows you just how right wing he was ).  Under Campbell the BC Liberals began to attract some of the old Socred supporters and the convergence began ensuring that the Socreds would not be viable which then brought over the remaining Socred supporters.

[Neil]

Name change, different faces.  Stelmach has failed to demonstrate any charisma, his cabinet is full of empty suits and the economic slowdown has hurt everybody other than Harper.

So essentially it's a leadership challenge, but it's easier to organize from the outside than inside.  Seems not entirely unreasonable.

By and large that's correct.  They sound a lot like a rank-and-file revolt of the PCs.  Thus, they incorporate some things that I'm not quite comfortable with, such as MLA recall, school choice, referenda initiated by the populance (we've seen how well ballot initiatives work in California) and fixed election dates.

[Grey Fox]

Gawd, Canadian politics is boring nowadays.

[crazy canuck]

Gawd, Canadian politics is boring nowadays.

Referring to how the only thing to talk about is whether proroguing Parliament is a big deal or not?  If so, I agree.  This is an ongoing criticism I have with Iggy.  He is never going to gain in the polls if he doesnt create a policy alternative rather then just nipping at the heels of Harper.  Sad to say but in that regard even Dion was better for the Liberals.

[BuddhaRhubarb]

Gawd, Canadian politics is boring nowadays.

Referring to how the only thing to talk about is whether proroguing Parliament is a big deal or not?  If so, I agree.  This is an ongoing criticism I have with Iggy.  He is never going to gain in the polls if he doesnt create a policy alternative rather then just nipping at the heels of Harper.  Sad to say but in that regard even Dion was better for the Liberals.

ya how come someone vaguely known for policy wonk, has none? Iggy is Canada's John Kerry?

I want a clean slate of politicians in Canada. There's no party that doesn't fill me with cynicism and depression. No leaders imho fit to govern.