China executes allegedly mentally ill Briton for drug traficking

[Caliga]

The continue existence of Rick Perry suggests otherwise.

Don't mess with Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer.

[Sheilbh]

Yes, it is much easier to be "British" than to qualify as English or Scottish. I would say it is more of a cultural matter whereas being "English" or whatever is more a matter of blood. One potential problem if the various nationalists get their way is that the useful supranational category of British will be lost.

I used to think this was the case but nowadays I'm not so sure.  We don't actually do much as 'Britain' outside of the world of politics and fighting.  I think sports and the arts are largely split into Scottish, English and Welsh.  Apart from the Queen I can't think of anyone who I'd see as primarily British.

[Martinus]

You're only a bigot if you hate the things Marti doesn't hate.  Take gays, for example. 

I'm not perfect but I'm no grallon or Slargos either.

[viper37]

they have this mentality too, in some US States where they execute the mentally hill.  Texas comes to mind, but there might be others too.

*sigh* We execute the retarded not the mentally ill.  For fuck sake.

Not much difference

[MadImmortalMan]

How about religious people Mart? You hate them?

[Razgovory]

How about religious people Mart? You hate them?

I guess he doesn't realize that he when goes into temper tantrums about "how he hates them so much", people my mistake that for you know, hating people.

[Martinus]

How about religious people Mart? You hate them?

Only those who hate me for being a gay man. And all the others, for being enablers.

I don't necessarily hate religious people belonging to churches that do not hate me, as long as they are happy to kill all the catholics and the like. 

[Sheilbh]

I don't necessarily hate religious people belonging to churches that do not hate me, as long as they are happy to kill all the catholics and the like. 

I think you'd like the Church of England.  Their greatest virtue is that over 500 years they've more or less successfully avoided religion

[Martinus]

I don't necessarily hate religious people belonging to churches that do not hate me, as long as they are happy to kill all the catholics and the like. 

I think you'd like the Church of England.  Their greatest virtue is that over 500 years they've more or less successfully avoided religion

I kinda like Rev. Rowan Williams even though he is not strong enough to stand up to the African bigots.

[The Brain]

Black people = bigots?

[Razgovory]

How about religious people Mart? You hate them?

Only those who hate me for being a gay man. And all the others, for being enablers.

I don't necessarily hate religious people belonging to churches that do not hate me, as long as they are happy to kill all the catholics and the like. 

In other words you hate them for the same reasons that Slargos and grallon hate people.  In other words, a bigot.

[Sheilbh]

I kinda like Rev. Rowan Williams even though he is not strong enough to stand up to the African bigots.

The problem with the Anglican Communion is that it's got lots of non-English people in it and they've a horrible habit of standing by their (or indeed having) beliefs.  So the Africans don't like too much tolerance of gays while the Americans appoint lesbian Bishops.  If it was just a CofE issue they'd work out some sort of compromise that leaves everyone unhappy.

[Queequeg]

What the fuck. I'm not a bigot!

Well, yeah, whatever. your culture is a despicable, abominable collection of superstitions and outright barbarism. I frankly don't care anymore about your "cultural differences" excuses, whether it comes to some mundane mind-boggling pettiness (like your attitudes to money, or appearances) or barbarisms like eating endangered species or executing mentally ill people.

The only proper response to your culture is to condemn it wholeheartedly and hope it will follow in the footsteps of, say, Aztecs, and end up on the dumpster of history.

Hmmmm....

[Richard Hakluyt]

Yes, it is much easier to be "British" than to qualify as English or Scottish. I would say it is more of a cultural matter whereas being "English" or whatever is more a matter of blood. One potential problem if the various nationalists get their way is that the useful supranational category of British will be lost.

I used to think this was the case but nowadays I'm not so sure.  We don't actually do much as 'Britain' outside of the world of politics and fighting.  I think sports and the arts are largely split into Scottish, English and Welsh.  Apart from the Queen I can't think of anyone who I'd see as primarily British.

I'm saying that there are multiple levels of "belonging". The British one may be attractive to immigrants because it is more accessible to them.

For myself I agree with you, I'm as likely to move to Scotland as France or Portugal; whereas I would move anywhere in England without a moment's thought, being British becomes less significant as the years go by.

[Sheilbh]

I'm saying that there are multiple levels of "belonging". The British one may be attractive to immigrants because it is more accessible to them.

For myself I agree with you, I'm as likely to move to Scotland as France or Portugal; whereas I would move anywhere in England without a moment's thought, being British becomes less significant as the years go by.

I agree but I'm wondering whether we're sort of seeing the redundancy of Britishness.  Because it's such a vague concept that is really tied up with politics.  Britishness makes sense in the context of politics and war but that's really its only cultural relevance.  I think one of the reasons nationalism's on the rise in Scotland for example is that unionism's been defended in such a money grubbing way.  The Scots should stay so they can enjoy England's largesse.  This turns the Scottish into poor cousins, inevitably increasing resentment on both sides of the border.  To address nationalism - whether English or Scottish - I think you need a romantic unionism, a sense of British identity that plucks the heartstrings.  That is why I think Gordon Brown's talk of common 'values' is a load of hot air.  British identity isn't to do with values in any sense whatsoever.  To be honest when I think of Britishness the only thing I come back to is the military and the wars that have been fought.

Nowadays I think people, including immigrants, identify far more readily with Scotland or with England.  I think the ironic thing about Norman Tebbit's cricket test of nationality is that in itself it undermines Britishness.  Who is more assimilated the 'British' Punjabi family living in Galloway, or the Punjabi family living in Galloway who desperately hope England lose to Germany?