Episcopal Priest wants to be both a Christian and a Muslim at the same time

Started by Caliga, April 02, 2009, 08:47:50 AM

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Darth Wagtaros

Quote from: Valmy on April 02, 2009, 09:10:49 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 02, 2009, 09:08:17 AM
She just bought into Pascals Wager and is covering her bets as best she can. Can't balme the poor woman.

She should convert to Judaism just to complete the hattrick...

and then she will die and discover the Catholics were right all along.

Trifecta!
PDH!

The Minsky Moment

Question: could one be Jewish and Muslim at the same time?

I can't think of any necessary theological contradiction off the top of my head. 
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Berkut

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2009, 11:07:04 AM
Question: could one be Jewish and Muslim at the same time?

I can't think of any necessary theological contradiction off the top of my head. 

I don't see why not, per se.

Hell, from a theological standpoint, can't you argue that Christians are a sect of Jews anyway?
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Queequeg

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2009, 11:07:04 AM
Question: could one be Jewish and Muslim at the same time?

I can't think of any necessary theological contradiction off the top of my head.
Would Jews have a problem with Muhammad being the "seal" of the Prophets?  Wouldn't the Messiah be another prophet? 
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

Valmy

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2009, 11:07:04 AM
Question: could one be Jewish and Muslim at the same time?

I can't think of any necessary theological contradiction off the top of my head. 

Ask your Rabbi!
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crazy canuck

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 02, 2009, 11:07:04 AM
Question: could one be Jewish and Muslim at the same time?

I can't think of any necessary theological contradiction off the top of my head.

Can't think of any contradiction theologically.  But I dont think one can be a Muslim and a follower of any other faith.  I have a vague recollection that one of the worst sins in Islam is for a believer to embrace another faith.

Queequeg

Minsky makes an interesting point, actually.  I think it is possible to be both Jewish and Christian at the same time (the Armenian Paulicians and a lot of the early Christians clearly fall under this category), and possibly Jewish and Muslim at the same time, but not Muslim and Christian at the same time.  Makes sense, with Judaism as the ur-religion and the two others being 'daughter' religions who developed along vaguely similar lines but in open conflict to each other for their entire history. 
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

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garbon

Quote from: Queequeg on April 02, 2009, 11:26:17 AM
Minsky makes an interesting point, actually.  I think it is possible to be both Jewish and Christian at the same time (the Armenian Paulicians and a lot of the early Christians clearly fall under this category), and possibly Jewish and Muslim at the same time, but not Muslim and Christian at the same time.  Makes sense, with Judaism as the ur-religion and the two others being 'daughter' religions who developed along vaguely similar lines but in open conflict to each other for their entire history. 

What exactly prevents the "combining" of Muslim and Christian thought?
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

crazy canuck

Quote from: garbon on April 02, 2009, 11:27:40 AM
[What exactly prevents the "combining" of Muslim and Christian thought?

Read posts above.  Christ as God for one.


Queequeg

Quote from: garbon on April 02, 2009, 11:27:40 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 02, 2009, 11:26:17 AM
Minsky makes an interesting point, actually.  I think it is possible to be both Jewish and Christian at the same time (the Armenian Paulicians and a lot of the early Christians clearly fall under this category), and possibly Jewish and Muslim at the same time, but not Muslim and Christian at the same time.  Makes sense, with Judaism as the ur-religion and the two others being 'daughter' religions who developed along vaguely similar lines but in open conflict to each other for their entire history. 

What exactly prevents the "combining" of Muslim and Christian thought?
It would have to dump either the the trinity, the crucifixion and some of the turn the other cheek stuff, or alternatively dump the harsh monotheism, iconoclastic aesthetic and warrior ethos.  There is a lot of overlap, and I think it is probably fair to say that Islam is a natural offshoot of some of the more Jewish, adoptionist Christian heresies of the 7th Century Middle-East,   but Islam has for its entire history defined itself as something related but different and better than Christianity.
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Caliga

Quote from: crazy canuck on April 02, 2009, 11:19:24 AMCan't think of any contradiction theologically.  But I dont think one can be a Muslim and a follower of any other faith.  I have a vague recollection that one of the worst sins in Islam is for a believer to embrace another faith.

Yes, the very wording of the shahadah suggests to me that Muslims are absolutely expected to be exclusively loyal to their faith.

I agree that it seems possible to be a Muslim and a Jew simultaneously.  I've never heard of any Jewish texts explicitly stating that Muhammed was NOT a Prophet, nor any laws that make it impossible for him to have been one, though I suppose Jews wouldn't believe a non-Jew could be a Prophet of God.  On the other hand, it's a bit unclear whether or not the Arab (and clearly Semitic) tribes of western Arabia would be viewed as belonging to the Chosen People or not... and IIRC alot of the Arabs of that region were Jews around the time Muhammad was born.
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crazy canuck

Quote from: garbon on April 02, 2009, 11:32:09 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 02, 2009, 11:29:47 AM
Read posts above.  Christ as God for one.

And you can't handwave over that?

Nope.  Islam has proclaimed Christianity for being polytheistic for that very reason.  Changing that view would go to the most important teaching of Islam that there is only one God.

As a side note the Old Testament/Torah even recognizes other Gods by the Commandment that followers should "have no other Gods before Me".  Islam absolutely demands not only that followers worship no other Gods but that there are no other Gods.