Obama to go hat in hand to the Russians to beg forgiveness.

[garbon]

She's so lovely. I wish they would teach her in colleges.

[Berkut]

Giving up something that is important to the people you are negotiating with is certainly giving something up. I am impressed by the lengths you will go to in your apologism - surely a lawyer understands that the value of something is determined by the person who you are negotiating with at least as much as the person who has it in their power to give it up or trade it.

Yes I remember that from the negotiation class.  But I also took "Accounting for Lawyers".  And what I learned from that is that one shouldn't spend billions of dollars on something that is useless to you simply out of the hope that maybe you can bargain it away later for some incohate advantage.

That isn't the reason it was developed, nor was it your point. You claimed that Gates said it was a boondoggle that we would ditch under any circumstances. That is completely wrong on both points.

And this in an effort to claim that Obama offering to toss it is not big deal. That is wrong on several different levels, which I think is rather obvious.

Certainly the Poles think it is valuable.

There has to be a good joke here . . .

So we should not be concerned by what they say, and wait until it is too late and they actually do something stupid?

So far what they have said is that the program is up for review, and that it's raison d'etre would vanish if the Iranian bomb program were to be ended.  Then they sent a letter to Russians linking those issues.  I don't see the problem with that.  Certainly I am not going to accuse them of doing something stupid when they haven't actually done anything stupid.

Nice strawman.

[derspiess]

So far what they have said is that the program is up for review, and that it's raison d'etre would vanish if the Iranian bomb program were to be ended.  Then they sent a letter to Russians linking those issues.  I don't see the problem with that.  Certainly I am not going to accuse them of doing something stupid when they haven't actually done anything stupid.

What's wrong with it is that it's extremely naive.  Do you really think there's any chance to get the Russians to help us?

[Jacob]

So in essence the complaint is "Obama isn't being implacably hostile to the Russians and this shows weakness, thus he is naive"?

[DontSayBanana]

The missile shield is valuable precisely because it's tangible evidence that we perceive Russia as a threat, at least from a Balkan/Russian perspective. These guys feed on conflict. By abandoning the missile shield, it signals to Russia and its neighboring nations that we're confident enough in our own existing forces as deterrent.

It also signals to China, Iran and North Korea that we're shoring up resources for more important things. From a tactical perspective, this could actually be beneficial.

[Berkut]

So in essence the complaint is "Obama isn't being implacably hostile to the Russians and this shows weakness, thus he is naive"?

And now jacob follows along in the strawman constructing footsteps of those who came before him.

This is almost as good as JRs constructed comments from Gates.

[Berkut]

The missile shield is valuable precisely because it's tangible evidence that we perceive Russia as a threat, at least from a Balkan/Russian perspective. These guys feed on conflict. By abandoning the missile shield, it signals to Russia and its neighboring nations that we're confident enough in our own existing forces as deterrent.

It also signals to China, Iran and North Korea that we're shoring up resources for more important things. From a tactical perspective, this could actually be beneficial.

Oh yeah, I am sure that Obama caving in to Russian demands will have them trembling in their boots.

[DontSayBanana]

Oh yeah, I am sure that Obama caving in to Russian demands will have them trembling in their boots.

They'll gloat, but it would take away the international forum to escalate their anti-US rhetoric. You're being tremendously short-sighted here.

[Delirium]

I was really scratching my head trying to figure out why Berk had that avatar, now I know.

This is comedy gold, gentlemen. Vintage Languish.

[Berkut]

Oh yeah, I am sure that Obama caving in to Russian demands will have them trembling in their boots.

They'll gloat, but it would take away the international forum to escalate their anti-US rhetoric. You're being tremendously short-sighted here.

You are assuming that there won't be something else for them to hang their anti-US rhetoric on...and of course there will be. There always is.

It isn't hard to make up something to be outraged about, especially when it comes to the US. We have our fingers in everything, after all.

[Berkut]

I was really scratching my head trying to figure out why Berk had that avatar, now I know.

This is comedy gold, gentlemen. Vintage Languish.

I would like to thank Raz for the suggestion.

My last one came from Habs telling me I should stop being such a big meany head to Vinnie the last time he ran pouting from the forum. I needed something new for the new forum, and Raz stepped up.

[garbon]

That's a really ugly horse.

[Berkut]

That's a really ugly horse.

Don't you dare talk smack about Whinny!

[Admiral Yi]

I was really scratching my head trying to figure out why Berk had that avatar, now I know.

This is comedy gold, gentlemen. Vintage Languish.

I still don't get the horse thing.  Can you explain it to me?

[garbon]

Don't you dare talk smack about Whinny!

Because?