Anti-Minaret Online Referendum

[DisturbedPervert]

It's not restricted to Islam.

The hotel RH, Tamas, Ank and I stayed at in Cortina, Italy we were awoken by a very loud church bell at 7am after a night of drinking. 

I barely even noticed bells when I was in Italy, definitely not enough to wake me up where I stayed. 

If I lived someplace with lots of mosques I'd be ok with getting rid of church bells if it meant getting rid of the call to prayer.  The annoyance level isn't even remotely the same.  It's much louder, it's pervasive everywhere, it lasts a lot longer, it's speech, and it happens 5 times per day, every day.  They mount huge loud speakers on the tops of their minarets and have daily DJ battles starting at sunrise.

[saskganesh]

here's an image of the new mosque they are building on the Danforth



since this is a Greek 'hood, I imagine there will be no problems with the locals. 

[Valmy]

If I lived someplace with lots of mosques I'd be ok with getting rid of church bells if it meant getting rid of the call to prayer.  The annoyance level isn't even remotely the same.  It's much louder, it's pervasive everywhere, it lasts a lot longer, it's speech, and it happens 5 times per day, every day.  They mount huge loud speakers on the tops of their minarets and have daily DJ battles starting at sunrise.

Simple noise ordinance would take care of that.

[Pat]

If I lived someplace with lots of mosques I'd be ok with getting rid of church bells if it meant getting rid of the call to prayer.  The annoyance level isn't even remotely the same.  It's much louder, it's pervasive everywhere, it lasts a lot longer, it's speech, and it happens 5 times per day, every day.  They mount huge loud speakers on the tops of their minarets and have daily DJ battles starting at sunrise.

Simple noise ordinance would take care of that.

Which is how it works in Sweden. There's a mosque in central Stockholm but it doesn't call to prayer (thankfully)

[Richard Hakluyt]

Yeah, opposing a ban on minarets does not imply that minarets can be erected just anywhere or that muezzins can make the call to prayer at all hours of the day; both of these are regulated in the the usual way.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

one of the problems with the mosques/minarets is that people have figured out that there's no reciprocity in many/most muslim countries. It's decidedly difficult to get a church built in the middle-east, it's almost impossibly hard to convert to christianity there, etc.
So people ask: why should we allow mosques if they're not willing to allow christians the same in their homecountries.

soit, stuff like http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,658103,00.html give me some hope (though I don't necessarily have to trust the person writing them).

As for those in the streets of Hamburg who think about jihad in the path of God, they should think about life, because this is the true jihad in the path of God. The mere fact that there are 46 prayer rooms in Hamburg is in and of itself evidence of the tolerance showed by the German state towards Muslims. There is no comparably large number of churches in a city in any Islamic country.

If even a fundamentalist can come to this conclusion others may as well, and while that no reason why the west should bend even one inch to accomodate illiberal attitudes or traditions just because their religious it may point to the fact that even islam might get 'there', given enough time.

But then some other idiots open their mouths and then it seems a wholesale culling might indeed be the best solution. So the solution might be in the middle: cullnigs for some, miniature gay-marriages for others.


As for the minarets/mosque-building: quid pro quo: for every mosque built here a church of comparabale size should be built there.

[Faeelin]

one of the problems with the mosques/minarets is that people have figured out that there's no reciprocity in many/most muslim countries. It's decidedly difficult to get a church built in the middle-east, it's almost impossibly hard to convert to christianity there, etc.
So people ask: why should we allow mosques if they're not willing to allow christians the same in their homecountries.

If we are letting Egypt become our moral arbiter then we have already failed.

[derspiess]

I technically should have voted "North American - No" but my opinion would be different were I a Euro (where this is actually an issue), so I voted Euro-Yes.

We have plenty of room here for mooselimbs as long as they are not of the radical variety & make some attempt to assimilate, but Europe is a different matter.  It's kind of like a theme park you don't want to ever change.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

one of the problems with the mosques/minarets is that people have figured out that there's no reciprocity in many/most muslim countries. It's decidedly difficult to get a church built in the middle-east, it's almost impossibly hard to convert to christianity there, etc.
So people ask: why should we allow mosques if they're not willing to allow christians the same in their homecountries.

If we are letting Egypt become our moral arbiter then we have already failed.

And if we let the Saudis plop down wahabi mosques just like that we'll fail too.

[Faeelin]

And if we let the Saudis plop down wahabi mosques just like that we'll fail too.

Ya know, this doesn't seem a huge problem here.

But I know Euros are big on notions of racial guilt.

[Jacob]

Maybe you should move to Switzerland Grallon?

Maybe you should relent in your crusade against punctuation, Jacob? 

o.k.a.y...i...w.i.l.l...d.o...a.s...y.o.u...s.u.g.g.e.s.t!!!!!!!!!!!

[grumbler]

As for the minarets/mosque-building: quid pro quo: for every mosque built here a church of comparabale size should be built there.

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of who the actors are in this issue.  There is not an Emperor of IslamAsia who can strike deals for quid pro quos with the Emperor of FascEurope.  There is not even a "here" here nor a "there" there.

[Jacob]

one of the problems with the mosques/minarets is that people have figured out that there's no reciprocity in many/most muslim countries. It's decidedly difficult to get a church built in the middle-east, it's almost impossibly hard to convert to christianity there, etc.
So people ask: why should we allow mosques if they're not willing to allow christians the same in their homecountries.

Not in the slightest.  I don't represent "team Christian", so I don't have any specific interest in helping Arabs convert to Christianity or whatever.  The human rights records of various muslim countries are of concern, but I don't subscribe to some team Christian vs team Muslim narrative.  Fuck that noise.

[Maximus]

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of who the actors are in this issue.  There is not an Emperor of IslamAsia who can strike deals for quid pro quos with the Emperor of FascEurope.  There is not even a "here" here nor a "there" there.

Indeed. Crusades are over. Most of western civilization has no interest in building churches "over there".

[The Larch]

I technically should have voted "North American - No" but my opinion would be different were I a Euro (where this is actually an issue), so I voted Euro-Yes.

We have plenty of room here for mooselimbs as long as they are not of the radical variety & make some attempt to assimilate, but Europe is a different matter.  It's kind of like a theme park you don't want to ever change.

Why don't you vote like yourself and stop pretending to be able to read our minds?