Anti-Minaret Online Referendum

[Jaron]

I can't say I care much about what the Swiss do.

I find it very odd though that the West handles the War on Terror as it does. We wage wars against Muslims where we can't possibly hope to win or eradicate them, and lay down passively in the arenas where we can. I fear that we won't really begin fighting back until it is too late.

[garbon]

hate freedom.

[The Larch]

^

When I visited my father in Jakarta this summer, they were not only live, they actually seemed to do battle with each other 

A Swede visiting his father in Jakarta? Are you bmollson's son? 

[Valmy]

It's not like the minarets are very tall by today's standards.

[Tamas]

.

The hotel RH, Tamas, Ank and I stayed at in Cortina, Italy we were awoken by a very loud church bell at 7am after a night of drinking. 

That was HORRIBLE! 

[The Larch]

Of course not, it's a symptom of short sighted bigotry.

Why is that particular brand of bigotry short-sighted?

Because it serves no other purpose but to stick it to the muslims. It's a petty and marginalizing measure that won't, if passed, achieve anything but to send a "you don't belong here" message, giving a false sense of superiority and security to a bunch of close minded bigots, while at the same time further marginalizing muslims.

[Valmy]

Of course not, it's a symptom of short sighted bigotry.

Why is that particular brand of bigotry short-sighted?

Because it serves no other purpose but to stick it to the muslims. It's a petty and marginalizing measure that won't, if passed, achieve anything but to send a "you don't belong here" message, giving a false sense of superiority and security to a bunch of close minded bigots, while at the same time further marginalizing muslims.

That is sort of the point.  They cannot really be "assimilated" into society if they are not welcomed into it.

I realize assimilate seems to have a much more sinister connotation of destroyed identity over in Euroland...but I am not sure what word would be better...integrated?

[Tamas]

Of course not, it's a symptom of short sighted bigotry.

Why is that particular brand of bigotry short-sighted?

Because it serves no other purpose but to stick it to the muslims. It's a petty and marginalizing measure that won't, if passed, achieve anything but to send a "you don't belong here" message, giving a false sense of superiority and security to a bunch of close minded bigots, while at the same time further marginalizing muslims.

That is sort of the point.  They cannot really be "assimilated" into society if they are not welcomed into it.

I realize assimilate seems to have a much more sinister connotation of destroyed identity over in Euroland...but I am not sure what word would be better...integrated?

So are minarets so widespread in the US?

[Pat]

^

When I visited my father in Jakarta this summer, they were not only live, they actually seemed to do battle with each other 

A Swede visiting his father in Jakarta? Are you bmollson's son? 

No, but I did meet bmollson at the monthly meeting of the Swedish Business Association (which is an excuse for swedes to get together and get drunk).

[Valmy]

So are minarets so widespread in the US?

Let me just say I am very very grateful for our immigration "problems" everytime I hear about Western Europe's.  We do not have immigrant organizations specifically devoted to having contempt and scorn for the decadent west and its traditions.  The Latinos, for the most part, are glad to be here even if they freak out the anti-immigrant peeps alot.

[Pat]

So are minarets so widespread in the US?

Let me just say I am very very grateful for our immigration "problems" everytime I hear about Western Europe's.  We do not have immigrant organizations specifically devoted to having contempt and scorn for the decadent west and its traditions.  The Latinos, for the most part, are glad to be here even if they freak out the anti-immigrant peeps alot.

I was under the impression that latinos had lower crime rates than blacks, even recently arrived latinos

[Tamas]

So are minarets so widespread in the US?

Let me just say I am very very grateful for our immigration "problems" everytime I hear about Western Europe's.  We do not have immigrant organizations specifically devoted to having contempt and scorn for the decadent west and its traditions.  The Latinos, for the most part, are glad to be here even if they freak out the anti-immigrant peeps alot.

Yes it is crazy to have people who come here (Europe) then start hate-mongering on their chosen home, trying to make it look like their tribal homelands they fled from. I know they are the loud minority but maybe the silent majority should start fucking yelling at them because obviously they are screwing things up, or help the european bigots to screw it up, this referendum being the latest example of it.

And if the only "solution" will continue to be the "omg if you mention that there is an issue you are a nazi", then there will be devil to pay.

I think it has been playing out like the gypsy situation here: the majority of non-violent whites and gypsies stayed silent while the minority of gypsies not respecting society, and the white nazis using this as an excuse for their attricious views from the 30s continued to roam ever more freely, in time influencing more and more people on their respective sides, as the so called liberal laws of the majority society failed to do anything to handle the problem (the problem being both the uncooperative gypsies and the nazis)
20 years of that, and here we are. Last week, we had yet another clash between the nazi militia and an organized group of gypsies, while the nazi party is second in the polls.

[Pat]

The nazi party second in the polls? Nazi according to you or nazi according to themselves?

[Valmy]

I was under the impression that latinos had lower crime rates than blacks, even recently arrived latinos

I would say going by prison populations that is an entirely accurate impression.

[Tamas]

The nazi party second in the polls? Nazi according to you or nazi according to themselves?

Okay, second tied with the socialist, and it means maybe like 8%-10%, but they are declaredly anti-EU, anti-Jew, and has a de facto (as of yet unarmed) militia called the Hungarian Guard, who wear uniform, and terrorize gypsies. Yes, they are as nazi as they can get.