Societies don't have to be secular to be modern

[Razgovory]

Btw, did anyone else see the irony of me being accused of the appeal to authority-fallacy just for quoting Freud against religion when religion is the single biggest appeal to authority there is?

No. You griping about it when Grumbler is also an atheist is a bit ironic though.

You know, actually I don't know what Grumbler is.  He doesn't talk about it much.  I think he mentioned he came from a family of Jehovah's Witnesses or something.

[The Brain]

I thought it was chimpanzees?

[Eddie Teach]

You know, actually I don't know what Grumbler is.  He doesn't talk about it much.  I think he mentioned he came from a family of Jehovah's Witnesses or something.

You weren't around in the first year when most of the great atheism debates occurred.

[crazy canuck]

You know, actually I don't know what Grumbler is.  He doesn't talk about it much.  I think he mentioned he came from a family of Jehovah's Witnesses or something.

He gave some pretty strong hints in this thread.

[Barrister]

-A lot of people believe in something.  A lot of those people are even very smart and thoughtful.  While those people might be mistaken on a topic, it doesn't make them idiots or suffering from a delusion.

I beg to differ. It's not an either/or situation. To put forward an example I'm familiar with: I'm a fairly bright person. I have a job that requires significant mental skills and I'm good at it. Yet I behave like an idiot on a regular basis, especially around beautiful women.
You can be deluded or stupid about something even if you are the most intelligent person in the world, just as you can be reasonable or unreasonable at the same time. That's just how our brains work.

Fine.

But I'm still not willing to say that otherwise smart atheists are deluded about their atheism.  I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and say they are merely mistaken.

[Razgovory]

You know, actually I don't know what Grumbler is.  He doesn't talk about it much.  I think he mentioned he came from a family of Jehovah's Witnesses or something.

You weren't around in the first year when most of the great atheism debates occurred.

I can only judge on the parts I know.

[grumbler]

You know, actually I don't know what Grumbler is.  He doesn't talk about it much.  I think he mentioned he came from a family of Jehovah's Witnesses or something.

You are correct that I don't talk about it much, because there isn't a lot to talk about.  I have no religious beliefs.  My parents did become JW's, but long after I let home.

I have seen both positive and negative things come from religion and the religious, so I support neither its promotion nor its abolition.  I do think, though, that it is a personal thing and I should no more be imposed upon by someone's beliefs as they should be imposed upon by my lack of them.  Secular laws based on religious principals or precepts per se are abhorrent to me.

But it isn't just about religion that I feel this way.  I consider the "Pledge of Allegiance" to be as silly as anything I read about even the silliest religion.

[Berkut]

grumbler hates the flag!

"I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the Unites States of America."

I sure am glad it never actually ordered me to do anything.

[Caliga]

Once upon a time the Pledge of Allegiance was cool, but then they dropped the Bellamy Salute from it and it all went down the shitter. 

[grumbler]

Indeed

[Malthus]

WTF? 

Okay - some googling made sense of that. What an unfortunate coincidence. 

[crazy canuck]

Indeed

People can take pictures in an alternative universe and transmit them to this reality.  Cool.

[Malthus]

Indeed

People can take pictures in an alternative universe and transmit them to this reality.  Cool.

[Maximus]

Ah, the fallacy of the red herring!    Or is it an Appeal to Pity?

If someone else is fallaciously appealing to authority when you do so, that does not make your fallacious appeal to authority valid.

Isn't it a classic tu quoque?

At any rate, appeal to authority isn't a fallacy, appeal to unqualified authority is.

[Pat]

Btw, did anyone else see the irony of me being accused of the appeal to authority-fallacy just for quoting Freud against religion when religion is the single biggest appeal to authority there is?

Ah, the fallacy of the red herring!    Or is it an Appeal to Pity?

If someone else is fallaciously appealing to authority when you do so, that does not make your fallacious appeal to authority valid.

Just pointing out the irony of the situation; that *I'm* the one you're accusing of appeal to authority. Grumbler, please, you're just grasping at straws because you've been made to look rediculous time after time in this thread. I'll continue to use quotes to make my points if I want to. Nothing wrong with that.