Roman Polanski arrested in Zürich

[Malthus]

Seems to me so totally irrelevant to the crime. "My parents died in the Holocaust and my wife was murdered by Manson ... so I was driven to rape a 13 year old". Huh? 

[The Minsky Moment]

BTW Marti don't know if this has come up yet, but how do you square your apparent position here that "consent" by a 13 year old girl should have legal significance, with your position that minors should never be tried as adults because of dimished capacity to form meaningful intent?

[Caliga]

I personally found Polanski's invocation of his Holocaust experience as some kind of excuse for his flight from justice to be very offensive.

The thing is that this would probably resonate strongly with the French people since I imagine they carry a bit of guilt re: the Holocaust.

[Syt]

Well it's not like I'm saying he did nothing wrong but saying that he "drugged and raped a child" is a fucking hell of an overreaction. The girl was not a virgin at the time and she was being pimped out by her mother to be a startlet. I don't think any party involved had any doubts as to what will happen if they live a 40 y.o. director with a teenage girl seeking an "audition" in a huge empty villa with a swimming pool, a jacuzzi and a well stocked bar.

He should answer for having sex with an underaged girl, but you make it sound like he picked and drugged some innocent girl from a school playground and then had his way with her.

Oh, man.

Seedy, did you know that it's less of a crime to kill whores since, you know, they're filthy whores and all?  I'd only count them as like half of a person for sentencing purposes.

Killing hookers and whores is redundant. They're dead inside, anyways.

[Martinus]

Seems to me so totally irrelevant to the crime. "My parents died in the Holocaust and my wife was murdered by Manson ... so I was driven to rape a 13 year old". Huh? 

Well he lived through the Holocaust and was hiding throughout the war, so that was more of a personal experience, I imagine. I guess this is a take on the "unhappy childhood" argument, that some people employ when it comes to criminals.

[Martinus]

BTW Marti don't know if this has come up yet, but how do you square your apparent position here that "consent" by a 13 year old girl should have legal significance, with your position that minors should never be tried as adults because of dimished capacity to form meaningful intent?

I never said it should have legal significance. As I said, I just thought that the description of the act by Merri was factually untrue - I never made an argument that should be taken into account in sentencing - it was just a factual/semantical nitpick.

That being said I don't think it would be unreasonable to make it a much more serious crime if someone actually forcibly rapes a child, as opposed to "just" committing a vanilla statutory rape - but again this is a statement about a relative severity of the two, and not a call to make a vanilla statutory rape a petty offense.

[grumbler]

I was wrong, ok? I had a totally wrong understanding of the case, because that's how it has been presented/implied by the Polish media and all the fuckers who defended him.

Actually, even if you account for the facts, your belief that it was significant to mention that she wasn't a virgin, and that the mother was pushing her career, is still bothersome.  I don't see how anyone with an understanding of the law could make such assertions.

[Malthus]

Seems to me so totally irrelevant to the crime. "My parents died in the Holocaust and my wife was murdered by Manson ... so I was driven to rape a 13 year old". Huh? 

Well he lived through the Holocaust and was hiding throughout the war, so that was more of a personal experience, I imagine. I guess this is a take on the "unhappy childhood" argument, that some people employ when it comes to criminals.

I suppose so - though one could point out that having an "unhappy childhood' doesn't doom one to become a criminal: some overcome "unhappy childhoods" to go on to achieve great things. Like become famous movie directors, for example. 

[Martinus]

I was wrong, ok? I had a totally wrong understanding of the case, because that's how it has been presented/implied by the Polish media and all the fuckers who defended him.

Actually, even if you account for the facts, your belief that it was significant to mention that she wasn't a virgin, and that the mother was pushing her career, is still bothersome.  I don't see how anyone with an understanding of the law could make such assertions.

See my response to Joan above - I was just commenting on the factual accuracy of Merri's post, not making a legal or a moral judgement.

[Martinus]

Seems to me so totally irrelevant to the crime. "My parents died in the Holocaust and my wife was murdered by Manson ... so I was driven to rape a 13 year old". Huh? 

Well he lived through the Holocaust and was hiding throughout the war, so that was more of a personal experience, I imagine. I guess this is a take on the "unhappy childhood" argument, that some people employ when it comes to criminals.

I suppose so - though one could point out that having an "unhappy childhood' doesn't doom one to become a criminal: some overcome "unhappy childhoods" to go on to achieve great things. Like become famous movie directors, for example. 

I know - again, since it seems like you really need to spell out everything on Languish or your post will be interpreted in the worst possible way, I don't think this is a particularly strong or reasonable argument; it's just that some people seem to think it is.

[Razgovory]

I was wrong, ok? I had a totally wrong understanding of the case, because that's how it has been presented/implied by the Polish media and all the fuckers who defended him.

Actually, even if you account for the facts, your belief that it was significant to mention that she wasn't a virgin, and that the mother was pushing her career, is still bothersome.  I don't see how anyone with an understanding of the law could make such assertions.

I think it's illegal to even bring that up in a US rape case.

[grumbler]

See my response to Joan above - I was just commenting on the factual accuracy of Merri's post, not making a legal or a moral judgement.

No, you were not.  Meri never mentioned the mother or virginity.  You were accusing her of over-reacting, and offering these as examples of why the offense didn't deserve her reaction.

[grumbler]

I think it's illegal to even bring that up in a US rape case.

I'd be interested to discovery if the victim's status as a non-virgin is a mitigating or extenuating factor even in Polish law.

[Sheilbh]

I mean surely there is somebody in France glad to see that rapist dude arrested.

Apparently comments and letters to newspapers are 50/50 and there's been a few anti-Polanski articles.  But, as the Guardian says, this is the country that gave Jean Genet a full and irrevocable pardon - so he could never be sent to prison again - because of his art.

[HisMajestyBOB]

I think it's illegal to even bring that up in a US rape case.

I'd be interested to discovery if the victim's status as a non-virgin is a mitigating or extenuating factor even in Polish law.

It used to be so in US law, I believe. Don't know how long ago - 1950s?