Russian-Belarussian Wargames - "West 2009"

[Martinus]

France is 90% nuclear and could export energy if needed.

In a fight-to-the-death-total-war scenario, France and England would blow the russian airforce out of the sky within a week.

I don't see why we'd lift a finger for Poland though.

I agree - you didn't do anything in 1939, so why change now?

We didn't?

Sorry, I saw a chance to make an anti-French quip and I took it.

But no, it's not like France (or Britain) did a hell of a lot during the 1939-1940 period to help poor Poland.

To be honest, France and England didn't expect Poland to reach debellatio within 3 weeks.

On paper, the Poles had an Army strong enough to reasonanly expect it to withhold the Germans at least until Winter, which would have given time to the French and English to organise their first offensive.

Well, I guess that "paper" you speak of didn't mention having to deal with the second invasion from the Soviets.

[Martinus]

Well, since when is going to war for nearly 6 years nothing? Must have missed the memo

Wow, you are really serious, aren't you? What were the military operations that France undertook against Germany before it itself got invaded by the nazis? 

France "went to war for nearly 6 years" because it got completely overrun, not because it was desperate to help Poland.

[DisturbedPervert]

In a fight-to-the-death-total-war scenario, France and England would blow the russian airforce out of the sky within a week.

Is this the general consensus on that match up?

[Razgovory]

How big are the Anglo-French militarizes?

[Viking]

How big are the Anglo-French militarizes?

UK 112,000 men 446 tanks
France 134,000 men 400 tanks
Poland 76,000 men 994 tanks
Germany 200,500 men 2350 tanks

Russia 395,000 men 6500 tanks

so even at half strength, we win.

[Neil]

France "went to war for nearly 6 years" because it got completely overrun, not because it was desperate to help Poland.

France was overrun in 1939?

They weren't big on teaching history in the Soviet bloc, were they?

[Agelastus]

In a fight-to-the-death-total-war scenario, France and England would blow the russian airforce out of the sky within a week.

Is this the general consensus on that match up?

No.

I do not share the blind optimism in the superiority of Western aircraft based on performances against powers such as Iraq; export versions of Soviet equipment were normally not as good as the models operated by the VVS.

Fighter strength (as example.) Figures from Wikipedia, presumably reasonably up-to-date.

Russia - 823 (MIG-29SM, MIG-31M, SU-27-SM, SU-30M, SU-35 with at least a further 150 of these modern types in training or reserve)
Germany 319 (including 65 old F4 Phantoms; the majority of the rest are Tornado IDS models.)
France 181 (AD Mirage 2000 and Rafale-B and C multi-role. Presumably some of the other Mirage 2000 types could be used in a pinch.)
UK 94 (Tornado and Eurofighter specifically listed as fighter/Air defence. Presumably, in an all out war, the Eurofighter Trainers, Harrier GR7s and Hawks could be deployed.)

The moral of the above is that as of now, 2009, thanks to the "peace dividend", the Russian airforce has, on paper, superiority over the British, French and German airforces. At the moment, for example, Germany is reliant on Tornados for the bulk of its air defence, and the fighter version of the Tornado has never been particularly highly regarded.

Once the Eurofighter enters service in great numbers, then the situation will be transformed.

[Razgovory]

How big are the Anglo-French militarizes?

UK 112,000 men 446 tanks
France 134,000 men 400 tanks
Poland 76,000 men 994 tanks
Germany 200,500 men 2350 tanks

Russia 395,000 men 6500 tanks

so even at half strength, we win.

Wait which side are you on?

[Josquius]

How big are the Anglo-French militarizes?

UK 112,000 men 446 tanks
France 134,000 men 400 tanks
Poland 76,000 men 994 tanks
Germany 200,500 men 2350 tanks

Russia 395,000 men 6500 tanks

so even at half strength, we win.

Quality>Quantity.
Give me one real soldier over five forced conscripts anyday.

Makes the "peace dividend" look even more like nonsense than it did then, doesn't it...

In internet national-penis comparison scenarios; yeah, its silly and shameful.
In the real world though; the Irish military FTW.

[Martinus]

France "went to war for nearly 6 years" because it got completely overrun, not because it was desperate to help Poland.

France was overrun in 1939?

They weren't big on teaching history in the Soviet bloc, were they?

God, you are dense. That is my point. France did not join military operations until it was attacked, almost a year after it "joined the war" by declaring war on the nazis and then doing nothing. Then it got overrun.

[Martinus]

How big are the Anglo-French militarizes?

UK 112,000 men 446 tanks
France 134,000 men 400 tanks
Poland 76,000 men 994 tanks
Germany 200,500 men 2350 tanks

Russia 395,000 men 6500 tanks

so even at half strength, we win.

Quality>Quantity.
Give me one real soldier over five forced conscripts anyday.

Makes the "peace dividend" look even more like nonsense than it did then, doesn't it...

In internet national-penis comparison scenarios; yeah, its silly and shameful.
In the real world though; the Irish military FTW.

Poland has forced conscripts too.

[Sahib]

Poland has forced conscripts too.

Conscription ended in 2008-2009

[Neil]

God, you are dense. That is my point. France did not join military operations until it was attacked, almost a year after it "joined the war" by declaring war on the nazis and then doing nothing. Then it got overrun.

Obviously Soviet-era education never taught you guys about the Saar offensive in September 1939.

[Viking]

How big are the Anglo-French militarizes?

UK 112,000 men 446 tanks
France 134,000 men 400 tanks
Poland 76,000 men 994 tanks
Germany 200,500 men 2350 tanks

Russia 395,000 men 6500 tanks

so even at half strength, we win.

Wait which side are you on?

The one shooting at the russians.

[Agelastus]

Makes the "peace dividend" look even more like nonsense than it did then, doesn't it...

In internet national-penis comparison scenarios; yeah, its silly and shameful.
In the real world though; the Irish military FTW.

I must confess that I have read this five times, rechecked the thread for where I made the original post twice, and I still haven't really got a clue what you are saying here.