Libyan leader Gaddafi files motion to partition Switzerland at UN

[Valmy]

In a historical sense the 20th century lasted from 1914 to 1991 according to Hobsbwam   just as the 19th century lasted from 1789 to 1914, now cold war and later is in a historical meaning late 20th century. What happened in 1950 has more in common with what happend in 1990 then what happend in 1940.

Hobsbwam hurt my feelings when he said such mean things about the Middle Classes in his book 'The Age of Capital'.

Contras, yes your executive branch fucked up, now which part of the US government decides foreign policy? It sure ain't the supreme court. And I'm not putting in on all of the USA, just the US governments foreign policy

Um even we considered the actions by the government to be ILLEGAL.  That was not an official policy.

Iraq, sorry I meant the Iran coup in -53 when the CIA worked with the British to overthrow the democratic government.

Yes I agree I disagree strongly with that particular policy.  The purpose though was to prevent the Soviet Union from taking control and considering they had occupied Iran several times recently that was a reasonable fear.  We didn't do it because we are mean or hate democratic governments.

Vietnam, sorry, that is a major interferance that was fucked up badly.

Of course it was major interferance we were trying to support our guys against the guys the Soviets were supporting.

Chile the CIA sponsored the coup in -73

Ok false.  The CIA helped a coup that was already going to happen and it happened to support our interests of making sure a potential Soviet ally did not set up shop in South America.  We did not "sponsor" a coup we have been around and around about this.

Cuba, bay of pigs

Fidel Castro and his regime are a Democratic Government now?  Besides in that case Castro could have had everything he wanted if he had just not made the effort to be a Soviet ally.

Greece, aid to the Royalist Greeks in the Greek civil war 46-49

Ok what the fuck was wrong with that?  You wish the Greek Communist Party had taken control?  WTF?

Italy, CIA sponsored assassination of union and communists leaders, supressing of commnist voters in the immidiate Italian post-war elections

The Italian election of 1946 was effected by a US government organization that did not even exist until 1947?

Guatemala, yes -54 see definition of late 20th century above

Yes another Cold War action that was a big mistake.  We still had alot of our WWII mentality going on in the early days.  But the purpose here was to prevent a Soviet ally in our hemisphere, not to destroy Democracy.

Brazil -64 CIA aided coup against a democratic government

Complete conjecture.  Nobody knows to what extent the CIA actually effected anything.

Besides the context is again the Cold War and it was going to happen anyway.

Argentina -76, CIA aided coup against a democratic government

Proof?  Kissinger simply liked it, but then Kissinger was an ass.

You have no proof that we had anything to with Brazil and Argentina and in any case our help was not significant either way.

[Barrister]

Yay for making up our own definitions for centuries.

Not really, one of the definitions of the 20th century is the rise and fall of communism, the rise began in 1914, and it fell in 1991.

No duce.

20th Cnetury is frm 1900 to 1999.

20th Century ran from 1901 to 2000.

[Valmy]

Anyway I get that you think we were bad guys during the Cold War.  I was sorta curious what we had done recently that made you think us doing a coup against Chavez was reasonably going to happen.

[Valmy]

A sorry it was Chavez
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN2138916720070122

Wow we said it was odd an elected President would rule by decree.  That is imperialist and evil of us.

[Siege]

Kissinger was an ass?

Come on!

What the hell did you expect in the middle of a Cold War?

[Valmy]

What the hell did you expect in the middle of a Cold War?

Somebody who did not enjoy it that much?

[Razgovory]

In a historical sense the 20th century lasted from 1914 to 1991 according to Hobsbwam

The commie?  I'm surprised that he just didn't say the world ended in 1991.

Have you even read his book? If not then I think you ought to retract that statement, he severly critisized the Soviet Union.

Why should I?  Clearly he doesn't even know what time period he's in.  Also, a Commie.

[Razgovory]

Kissinger was an ass?

Come on!

What the hell did you expect in the middle of a Cold War?

He was doing it just to get laid.

[Valmy]

He was doing it just to get laid.

We he was very successful then by all accounts.

[Siege]

What the hell did you expect in the middle of a Cold War?

Somebody who did not enjoy it that much?

Ah, we are here today enjoying freedom because people back then took the Soviet threat seriously.

Realpolitiks, my friend.

[Neil]

Sorry, but that is bullshit. You can't justify several thousand people executed with 'Well rich Chileans got it better now then they might have had'

Isn't that what the American Revolution is founded on?

I doubt that the 'founding fathers' set out with the established goal of making it better for rich Chileans   

The founding fathers set out with the goal of murdering as many people as it took to make them rich and secure.  By supporting a coup in Chile, the US was exporting American values.

Besides, what difference does the ideology of the murderous thug in charge of a worthless country in South America?  Either way, thousands of people are going to get murdered by death squads.  The fact that Pinochet was hostile to the Soviets made him infinitely superior.

[Siege]

Kissinger was an ass?

Come on!

What the hell did you expect in the middle of a Cold War?

He was doing it just to get laid.

Probably. I don't put it pass him.

[Berkut]

Sometimes the ends do justify the means.

I've always wondered about that saying - it is so self-evidently true, that it doesn't make much sense as an accusation.

But the phrse "the ends justify the means" doesn't talk about some situations.  Clearly i 99.999% of situations the ends justify the means, because boths the ends and the means are benign.

But where the phrase "the ends justify the means" has controversy is that the phrase is meant to refer to ALL situations.  That no matter how vile or despicable the means, if the result is positive then it is justified.

That makes no sense though - of course the ends do not ALWAYS justify the means.

[Barrister]

Sometimes the ends do justify the means.

I've always wondered about that saying - it is so self-evidently true, that it doesn't make much sense as an accusation.

But the phrse "the ends justify the means" doesn't talk about some situations.  Clearly i 99.999% of situations the ends justify the means, because boths the ends and the means are benign.

But where the phrase "the ends justify the means" has controversy is that the phrase is meant to refer to ALL situations.  That no matter how vile or despicable the means, if the result is positive then it is justified.

That makes no sense though - of course the ends do not ALWAYS justify the means.

Well some people say they do.   It's the strict utilitarian point of view.

[Berkut]

So the former US government did not call for an economic and diplomatic isolation of Venezuela from it's neighbours?

Not that I am aware of.  More the other way around.

A sorry it was Chavez
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN2138916720070122

So now the bar for "interfering" is so low that simply criticizing another country is interference?

If so, please stop interfering in the US. KTHXBYE!

What a bunch of assholes the US is - interfering with other countries right to self determination, like the right of South Vietnam to determine that they want to be communist puppets!