RIP Edward Kennedy

[Berkut]

Kennedy is bashed for the perception that, when the accident happened, he acted in such a manner as to give the impression he cared more for how it would affect his public career than about the dead chick.

More to the point, before he even knew she was dead, he acted in a manner that made it either certain or extremely likely that she would die, rather than simply calling the police immediately, like 99.99% of all people would do, regardless of their political position.

There was a house with a phone a few hundred yards away from his car. Someone capable of saving her if in fact she could ahve been saved could have been on scene in a matter of tens of minutes had he simply walked over, knocked on the door, and said "There has been an accident, I need to use your phone."

It's not like he is knocked for not doing something heroic or exceptional.

[Razgovory]

You don't bring up Mr. Cheney drunkenly shooting a man in the face on a regular basis and using his people to create a barrier between himself and the police.  While you've brought up the Kennedy thing many times.

[Berkut]

You don't bring up Mr. Cheney drunkenly shooting a man in the face on a regular basis and using his people to create a barrier between himself and the police.  While you've brought up the Kennedy thing many times.

Oh yeah, I am such a huge fan of Dick Cheney.

Why would I bring it up anyway? I don't care for Cheney, so I certainly don't defend him in any case, but his getting hammered and shooting someone in a hunting accident is pretty funny (since nobody died or was seriously hurt), but as far as I know he didn't abandon the guy to die afterward.

[Razgovory]

He was drunk enough to drive a car off a bridge but not drunk enough to be expected to not act rationally in a catastrophe.  That's a very specific level of drunkenness.

[Razgovory]

You don't bring up Mr. Cheney drunkenly shooting a man in the face on a regular basis and using his people to create a barrier between himself and the police.  While you've brought up the Kennedy thing many times.

Oh yeah, I am such a huge fan of Dick Cheney.

Why would I bring it up anyway? I don't care for Cheney, so I certainly don't defend him in any case, but his getting hammered and shooting someone in a hunting accident is pretty funny (since nobody died or was seriously hurt), but as far as I know he didn't abandon the guy to die afterward.

No but he didn't talk to the police right away and used a surrogate till he sobered up.  Same motive as you ascribe to Kennedy.

[Berkut]

He was drunk enough to drive a car off a bridge but not drunk enough to be expected to not act rationally in a catastrophe.  That's a very specific level of drunkenness.

Actually, he claims that he was not drunk at all. He certainly has never claimed that he was so drunk that he could not think up the idea of calling the police after he crashed his car into a pond, and abandoned the woman in the car.

What an odd length to go to to defend him - you are making claims up for him that he has specifically stated were NOT the case.

[Barrister]

Wow.  Raz is trying to actually defend Kennedy's actions at Chappaquiddick.  I never would have thought that possible.

Now the "he should be judged for his legislative record" line I can understand, or the "its only one mistake against a lifetime of public service", sure.  But to actually excuse his actions?

Wow.

[Razgovory]

He was drunk enough to drive a car off a bridge but not drunk enough to be expected to not act rationally in a catastrophe.  That's a very specific level of drunkenness.

Actually, he claims that he was not drunk at all. He certainly has never claimed that he was so drunk that he could not think up the idea of calling the police after he crashed his car into a pond, and abandoned the woman in the car.

What an odd length to go to to defend him - you are making claims up for him that he has specifically stated were NOT the case.

Are you arguing he wasn't drunk?

[Razgovory]

Wow.  Raz is trying to actually defend Kennedy's actions at Chappaquiddick.  I never would have thought that possible.

Now the "he should be judged for his legislative record" line I can understand, or the "its only one mistake against a lifetime of public service", sure.  But to actually excuse his actions?

Wow.

I'm arguing that it wasn't a murder.

[Berkut]

You don't bring up Mr. Cheney drunkenly shooting a man in the face on a regular basis and using his people to create a barrier between himself and the police.  While you've brought up the Kennedy thing many times.

Oh yeah, I am such a huge fan of Dick Cheney.

Why would I bring it up anyway? I don't care for Cheney, so I certainly don't defend him in any case, but his getting hammered and shooting someone in a hunting accident is pretty funny (since nobody died or was seriously hurt), but as far as I know he didn't abandon the guy to die afterward.

No but he didn't talk to the police right away and used a surrogate till he sobered up.  Same motive as you ascribe to Kennedy.

...the difference being he didn't allow someone to die in the meantime. But like I said, you are going to ahve to ind someone else to champion Cheney, since I am not sitting here worshiping the guy, nor will I be once he is dead.

If Cheney had shot the guy while they were off alone, then refused to report it for hours while he bled to death, then I would be the first person to demand that he go to jail for it.

The reverse is rather interesting - you are making up explanations that Kennedy has not only never claimed, but has specifically denied to defend him when he DID kill someone, yet you are slamming Cheney for an offense that is clearly rather trivial in comparison.

Christ, why am I arguing with Raz? He hasn't even said anything funny!

[Jaron]

Christ, why am I arguing with Raz? He hasn't even said anything funny!
[/quote]

Guess you got tired of getting stomped by JR and Martinus and wanted an opponent on your own level.

[Razgovory]

He was also with a large group of people.  Who could prevent the man from dying.

[Berkut]

Guess you got tired of getting stomped by JR and Martinus and wanted an opponent on your own level.

I will own up to getting beat up by JR on occasion, but Marty?

Why you gotta hurt me like that Jaron?

[Barrister]

Wow.  Raz is trying to actually defend Kennedy's actions at Chappaquiddick.  I never would have thought that possible.

Now the "he should be judged for his legislative record" line I can understand, or the "its only one mistake against a lifetime of public service", sure.  But to actually excuse his actions?

Wow.

I'm arguing that it wasn't a murder.

It was reprehensible.

[Berkut]

He was also with a large group of people.  Who could prevent the man from dying.

True. But I operate under the presumption that pretty much everyone will in fact not worry about themselves when another human being is about to die, especially one they know and presumably care about. That is just a basic operating assumption I have.

So I am going to assume that Cheney is in fact a human being, until shown otherwise. Kennedy proved that he was not. Maybe Cheney would have done the same thing in the same situation, but until he does, I can only judge him on what he has done.

And while there are lots of reasons to despise Dick, his actions when he shot his buddy where pretty lame, but hardly anything approaching the level of callousness of Kennedy.