Victoria 2

[garbon]

EU3 expansion?  This will be a free download for everyone who bought EU3 Complete Edition, right?

I think some of the copy says "taking you beyond complete..."

[DisturbedPervert]

Think of it as an encore, the show is over, but you still expect a few extra songs. That was IN, now this is more like beer afterwards in the pub.

Too much cock gobbling at that pub I'm afraid.  I'm done with Paradox if they're releasing more EU3 expansions after the "Complete Edition"

[Zanza]

I am particularly pleased to see they had the balls to stick with the pop system.

I like the pop system, but I dislike the pop promotion. Just paying a few thousand quid to get 100,000 clerks out of a farmer pop didn't work well.

[KRonn]

the AI was pretty dumb. when the Russian Navy can defeat the British, because the Brit navy sails out of port on predictable pathways at low morale immediatly on full mobilization, it's a real issue.

Yeah, that hurt. The naval side needs work. Navies are pretty important in Vicky. In order to protect colonies or fight colonial wars effectively you need to be able to transport troops, get through enemy naval forces, and try to deny your opponent from doing the same. So I want the naval aspect to get some good change/improvement.

[Josquius]

There are only 3 or 4 examples of actual empires in the entire game which makes it all very....ugh.
.

similarly, there's maybe a dozen countries (out of 200) in Vikkie that make for a good game. IMO, it only really shone when you played a major Imperialist power (China the one exception). even middling powers (Brazil, Mexico, Spain, Portugal, Argentina) had their issues.

Of course this means playing the CSA was a joke for the average player.

I suppose. It seemed so much bigger though.
With Rome I guess you just end up doing the same whoever you play is. Victoria though gave you very different experiences between Britain, the US, Prussia and Russia.

[Barrister]

This was a game I did not think I'd ever see.

Never did pick up Vicky I though (despite being a beta-tester at one point).  Maybe I should do it at this point?


It also gives me great hope for CK2.

[DGuller]

I am particularly pleased to see they had the balls to stick with the pop system.

I like the pop system, but I dislike the pop promotion. Just paying a few thousand quid to get 100,000 clerks out of a farmer pop didn't work well.

I hated the pop system because of all the non-linearity that it introduced.  That gave incentives to all sorts of tedious pop size micro-management.

[Zanza]

I hated the pop system because of all the non-linearity that it introduced.  That gave incentives to all sorts of tedious pop size micro-management.

That too. But I can live with non-linearity better than with the promotion system. Of course, having just 3 (or 4?) steps is not much when you have up to 100,000 people in a pop.

[Tamas]

As much fun as I had playing Vicky and its expansion, and as much work I invested in it as a beta tester (Victoria was the first Paradox game I was chosen to beta. Oh the joy when I learned I was selected), this sequel is a bad idea.

They need to fundamentally brake the original design and move it toward EU3ism to make it worthwile, but considering all the stuff (much-much less randomness is permitted here than in EU3), it has to be a masterpiece, or it will fail.
And the 1936 thing - it is horrible. The entire reason WW1 was fought the way it was due to the fact that while the ruling class continued to play its post-napoleonic power plays, massive changes occured "under the hood". This is a bad idea.

Plus, the new reforms and stuff: again, Paradox' biggest shortcoming is being Swedish: they ignore naval matters, and they think the entire political development thing is as easy as "go reformist and democratic asap -> profit" It did not work that way, just look at two major players of the era, Austria and Russia, for whom selection was between (limited or total) authocracy or doom, due to the etnhic and economical setup of their countries.
They may address this in Vicky 2, but they failed to mention it among the features.

[The Minsky Moment]

The p-dox comments suggest that pop promotion will be automated or at least automatable.

IIRC nonlinearity was a function of engine limitations and the need to meet relatively low system requirements as of the date of release.  I would expect (hope?) that it would not be retained in the sequel.

[ulmont]

The p-dox comments suggest that pop promotion will be automated or at least automatable.

Thank fuck.  With that, vicky 2 might be worth playing.

[The Minsky Moment]

Plus, the new reforms and stuff: again, Paradox' biggest shortcoming is being Swedish: they ignore naval matters, and they think the entire political development thing is as easy as "go reformist and democratic asap -> profit" It did not work that way, just look at two major players of the era, Austria and Russia, for whom selection was between (limited or total) authocracy or doom, due to the etnhic and economical setup of their countries.
They may address this in Vicky 2, but they failed to mention it among the features.

I don't get your point here - both these things were issues with Victoria 1, so why is this an argument *against* a sequel?  Ricky went a significant way towards addressing your second issue - making a more mod-friendly sequel of the game is surely a good thing.

[garbon]

I can only guess that his comment stems from the notion that Vicky 2 won't really fix most of the key issues from the Vicky 1.  Like the naval aspect from HOI1-HOI3.

That said, I don't think that one needs to completely reinvent the wheel to fix outstanding issues.

[MadImmortalMan]

Map sucks

[The Minsky Moment]

I can only guess that his comment stems from the notion that Vicky 2 won't really fix most of the key issues from the Vicky 1. 

Revolutions did improve a lot of the shortcomings of the original release, so it's not unreasonable to think that things could be improved.  Even something as simple as adding a blockade capability (which EU3 has) would be a huge improvement to naval.  The reference to gunboat diplomacy makes it sound as though there will be some benefit from maintaining fleet bases across the world.  I can always hope that some meaningful functionality is added to coaling stations.