Will any Liberals be satisfied with the Democrats in 2010?

[Hansmeister]

I stand corrected Shelf.

To be fair, this is what Obama himself said in a NYTimes interview back in April:

I mean, the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here.

LEONHARDT: So how do you — how do we deal with it?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think that there is going to have to be a conversation that is guided by doctors, scientists, ethicists. And then there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place. It is very difficult to imagine the country making those decisions just through the normal political channels. And that's part of why you have to have some independent group that can give you guidance. It's not determinative, but I think it has to be able to give you some guidance.

That sure sounds like an endorsement of "death panels".  And he has expressed similar sentiments several times in town halls about denying health care to the elderly on the basis that he'd not judge them worthy of the expense.

[Hansmeister]

For example:

Obama discusses deathbed measures
At a healthcare town hall, he says stopping futile procedures for the terminally ill can lower costs.
By Peter Nicholas
June 25, 2009

Reporting from Washington — President Obama suggested at a town hall event Wednesday night that one way to shave medical costs is to stop expensive and ultimately futile procedures performed on people who are about to die and don't stand to gain from the extra care.

In a nationally televised event at the White House, Obama said families need better information so they don't unthinkingly approve "additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows is not necessarily going to improve care."

He added: "Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller."

Obama said he has personal familiarity with such a dilemma. His grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, was diagnosed with terminal cancer and given less than nine months to live, he said.

She fell and broke her hip, "and the question was, does she get hip replacement surgery, even though she was fragile enough they were not sure how long she would last?"

Sure sounds like he's endorsing denying health care to seniors on account they're not worth spending much money on.  The hysteria about the GOP using the term "Death Panel" is merely because the Dems are scared the GOP have found an effective catchphrase to attack the Democrats on.

[Admiral Yi]

For example:

Obama discusses deathbed measures
At a healthcare town hall, he says stopping futile procedures for the terminally ill can lower costs.
By Peter Nicholas
June 25, 2009

Reporting from Washington — President Obama suggested at a town hall event Wednesday night that one way to shave medical costs is to stop expensive and ultimately futile procedures performed on people who are about to die and don't stand to gain from the extra care.

In a nationally televised event at the White House, Obama said families need better information so they don't unthinkingly approve "additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows is not necessarily going to improve care."

He added: "Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller."

Obama said he has personal familiarity with such a dilemma. His grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, was diagnosed with terminal cancer and given less than nine months to live, he said.

She fell and broke her hip, "and the question was, does she get hip replacement surgery, even though she was fragile enough they were not sure how long she would last?"

Sure sounds like he's endorsing denying health care to seniors on account they're not worth spending much money on.  The hysteria about the GOP using the term "Death Panel" is merely because the Dems are scared the GOP have found an effective catchphrase to attack the Democrats on.

You should have quit while you were ahead.  The first article has a whiff of death panel to it, this one does not.

[Razgovory]

Not even a whiff.  Well at least you are enlightened Yi.  You can see that your comrades in arms in the GOP really do take their conspiracies seriously.

[Admiral Yi]

Not even a whiff.  Well at least you are enlightened Yi.  You can see that your comrades in arms in the GOP really do take their conspiracies seriously.

Easily a whiff.

[Faeelin]

Incidentally, the left wing of the Democrats is now getting angry at Obama, and with his sky high popularity already gone...

August 17, 2009

The Honorable Kathleen Sebelius
Secretary, U.S. Department of Health & Human Services
200 Independence Avenue, S.W. Washington, D.C. 20201

Dear Secretary Sebelius,

We write to you concerning your recent comments about the public option in health insurance reform.

We stand in strong opposition to your statement that the public option is "not the essential element" of comprehensive reform. The opportunity to improve access to healthcare is a onetime opportunity. Americans deserve reform that is real-not smoke and mirrors. We cannot rely solely on the insurance companies' good faith efforts to provide for our constituents. A robust public option is essential, if we are to ensure that all Americans can receive healthcare that is accessible, guaranteed and of high-quality.

To take the public option off the table would be a grave error; passage in the House of Representatives depends upon inclusion of it.

We have attached, for your review, a letter from 60 Members of Congress who are firm in their Position that any legislation that moves forward through both chambers, and into a final proposal for the President's signature, MUST contain a public option.

http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/60-members-of-congress-say-no-public-plan-no-conference/

Dean of course has also been critical of the president.

Howard Dean, the former Democratic National Committee chairman, went so far as to say Democrats should try to "tackle health reform another time."

"You can't really have reform without a public option," Dean said on CBS News's "The Early Show. "If you don't want to have the public option, ... just do a little insurance reform ... and then we'll tackle health reform another time. But let's not pretend we're doing reform without a public option."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/26180.html

[Faeelin]

Anyway, can someone explain to me how the government being concerned about the cost of end of life treatment is different than for profit insurance companies being concerned about it?

[Admiral Yi]

Anyway, can someone explain to me how the government being concerned about the cost of end of life treatment is different than for profit insurance companies being concerned about it?

For one thing 100% of people dying of old age are covered by Medicare.

Of all the things to get hung up about a public option seems like the most trivial.

[Caliga]

Anyway, can someone explain to me how the government being concerned about the cost of end of life treatment is different than for profit insurance companies being concerned about it?

This thing has been drastically blown out of proportion for political reasons, but, if it were actually as the extreme right (i.e. Palin and friends) is trying to portray it, I could see the concern.  Let's say that these fictitious government boards really were going to decide to deny coverage to a terminal or very elderly case... you KNOW if it was government-run, folks like Jesse Jackson would turn it into something racial and the end result would be they'd be less likely to pull the plug on a black dude than a white one.

[Razgovory]

Not even a whiff.  Well at least you are enlightened Yi.  You can see that your comrades in arms in the GOP really do take their conspiracies seriously.

Easily a whiff.

[Admiral Yi]

Read Hans' first post and tell me what Obama wants to have a difficult democratic conversation about.

[Valmy]

Read Hans' first post and tell me what Obama wants to have a difficult democratic conversation about.

But that is insane.  That is not practical and will never work politically.

What pisses me the fuck off is Hans is dancing the fucking happy dance he now has a way to attack the Democrats politically but the Republicans have zero alternatives and indeed only expanded the fucking health care system themselves when in power.

So what?  Hans has a pointless and useless and masturbatory way to attack Democrats.  Why the fuck should I care?

It is not like something like death panels could ever really exist in the real world.  The millions of lawsuits in themselves would be stunning.  Hurrah for conspiracy theory bullshit to get us talking about nonsense instead of actual health care solutions.

[KRonn]

Read Hans' first post and tell me what Obama wants to have a difficult democratic conversation about.

But that is insane.  That is not practical and will never work politically.

What pisses me the fuck off is Hans is dancing the fucking happy dance he now has a way to attack the Democrats politically but the Republicans have zero alternatives and indeed only expanded the fucking health care system themselves when in power.

So what?  Hans has a pointless and useless and masturbatory way to attack Democrats.  Why the fuck should I care?

It is not like something like death panels could ever really exist in the real world.  The millions of lawsuits in themselves would be stunning.  Hurrah for conspiracy theory bullshit to get us talking about nonsense instead of actual health care solutions.

I think part of the scare is that since health care costs are so high, and that needs to be dealt with, the concern is how costs will be brought down in a govt run system. That might include some sort of rationing, which may be the wrong word, but the insurance companies do similar now to curb costs. Some Insurance companies may deny some care, such as experimental, or have some caps on care spending. That might also include denying some care to elderly, which is something that's been talked about by other people even if it's not part of the health care bill.

As for the Repubs, they have many ideas to curb costs or what ever. I can't schill for them as I haven't followed too closely. But there are other ideas out there, Dem and Repub outside of the health care bill. But if not for Pres Obama finally pushing for some reform, it's not likely the Repubs especially, or many Dems, would be trying to take this on anyway. So I give credit to Pres Obama, though I don't like the original bill and the ideas of more massive spending. However, I do hope he sticks to this to get some reform started. Health care costs are a real burden on business and individuals and that hits the economy too.

[Admiral Yi]

But that is insane.  That is not practical and will never work politically.

What pisses me the fuck off is Hans is dancing the fucking happy dance he now has a way to attack the Democrats politically but the Republicans have zero alternatives and indeed only expanded the fucking health care system themselves when in power.

So what?  Hans has a pointless and useless and masturbatory way to attack Democrats.  Why the fuck should I care?

It is not like something like death panels could ever really exist in the real world.  The millions of lawsuits in themselves would be stunning.  Hurrah for conspiracy theory bullshit to get us talking about nonsense instead of actual health care solutions.

Not sure what your point is.

[Valmy]

However, I do hope he sticks to this to get some reform started. Health care costs are a real burden on business and individuals and that hits the economy too.

Yep.  I am not sure what the solution is but anybody with half a brain knows you cannot practically just start cutting off the elderly.