Will any Liberals be satisfied with the Democrats in 2010?

[Sheilbh]

Idiot fringe candidacies have more traction when the incumbent has a record to run against.

I agree.  I think that's why you'd have to be a very confident Republican to even think about helping the Dems, especially if you're a Senator, like Olympia Snowe, for example.

[Sheilbh]

You may be right, Republicans may be pounding away about death panels and I'm just missing it.  Hook me up with a quote or two.

Chuck Grassley:

There is some fear because in the House bill, there is counseling for end-of-life. And from that standpoint, you have every right to fear. You shouldn't have counseling at the end of life. You ought to have counseling 20 years before you're going to die. You ought to plan these things out. And I don't have any problem with things like living wills. But they ought to be done within the family. We should not have a government program that determines if you're going to pull the plug on grandma.

I believe he's since walked back some of that and a spokesman's more or less abandoned it all.
Gingrich:

"The bill is a thousand pages of setting up mechanisms," he said. "You are asking us to trust turning power over to the government, when there are clearly people in America who believe in establishing euthanasia, including selective standards."

I'm assuming you've read the Palin comment:

"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's "death panel" so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their "level of productivity in society," whether they are worthy of health care," Palin wrote. "Such a system is downright evil."

Michael Steele:

"That's the mood the administration is beginning to take," Steele said. "In this case, it is the government controlling the means of providing health care to the American people. It is inserting itself into the very fabric of the decisions that you make, have to make every single day. It'll make the Terry Schiavo case look like a walk in the park."

John Cornyn being most suspicious of the 'death panel' claim:

I think it's probably an exaggeration of what is actually in the plans, but there is no doubt that there is an emphasis on consulting with family members about end-of-life decisions and health care decisions because of the stated concerns about how much money is spent at that stage of life and whether money could actually be saved by encouraging people to have living wills and medical directives, as the president has discussed.

I think the most important thing here is that those decisions must be left in the hands of the family and individuals most directly affected.  I think what scares people and what creates the specter of end-of-life panels or "death panels" is the idea that government would somehow be involved in those decisions.  I think we've got to have a firewall between private decision-making and government decision-making when it comes to end-of-life decisions, because I think it's easy for all of us to see how this could, even despite the best of intentions, degenerate into one where government ultimately made decisions based on cost and the value of one's life, rather than leaving those decisions in the hands of the family

Now it could have come up because they've been asked about it but there are a number of Republicans who seem to be giving credence to something that's just not true.  And this has garnered attention in the UK because they've made a number of untrue statements about the NHS which has attracted politicians attentions here with everyone rushing to defend 'our NHS' (David Cameron) from such attacks.

Edit:
Palin's also said that the death panels won't be 'entirely voluntary' apparently.

This isn't a death panel claim but it's still untrue and aiming at geeing up opposition, from Boehner:

"will require (Americans) to subsidize abortion with their hard-earned tax dollars."

Dan Lungren:

"If we are being told that this week we have to make the decision as to whether or not the program we put forward will have government decide whether a 100-year-old woman who is in extraordinarily good health but needs a pacemaker ought to instead be told by the government that merely she should take a pain pill — as the president suggested on television not too long ago — then maybe we owe it to the American people to give ourselves sufficient time" to study this legislation further.

Then there's Betsy McCaughey:

"Mandatory counseling for all seniors at a minimum of every five years, more often if the seasoned citizen is sick or in a nursing home. ... That's an invasion of the right to privacy. We can't have counseling for mothers who are thinking of terminating their pregnancy, but we can go in there and counsel people about to die."

[Sheilbh]

But yeah the health system is simply messed up and I have no illusions whatever the eventual reform the Dems do it will be any better.

I'm always confused when Americans attack healthcare as if it's going to be socialised, like the NHS.  From what I can tell there are two undeniable truths in healthcare policy: no-one would want to imitate the American system and no-one would want to imitate the British system.

From what I've read you look to be heading to a Dutch/French system with a private insurance market with government regulation and support for the poor.  In Holland last year health insurance premiums fell due to competition which I don't think has happened in the US in a long time.

[Sheilbh]

I am not enthusiastic about this Spicey I just don't really think our present system is worth defending and nobody seems to have any other ideas.  Heck even the Republicans massively expanding federal health benefits.

Ironically despite Democrat claims to the contrary the Democrats seem to want to cut Medicare as part of healthcare reforms.  After a long time of wanting to do something like that Republicans are attacking the Democrats from the left on that

[Valmy]

In Holland last year health insurance premiums fell due to competition which I don't think has happened in the US in a long time.

[Grallon]

...

I'm always confused when Americans attack healthcare as if it's going to be socialised, like the NHS.  From what I can tell there are two undeniable truths in healthcare policy: no-one would want to imitate the American system and no-one would want to imitate the British system.

...

As with the gun control debate, they're mired in myths and religious inspired fantasies.  Mind you we experience something similar in Canada but from the opposite angle: any suggestion that the private sector could somehow be involved in Healthcare is howled down as anathema and an attack on canadian values...

Delusions all around. HA!




G.

[Sheilbh]

As with the gun control debate, they're mired in myths and religious inspired fantasies.  Mind you we experience something similar in Canada but from the opposite angle: any suggestion that the private sector could somehow be involved in Healthcare is howled down as anathema and an attack on canadian values...

We've the same problem here.  Politicians who wish to reform the NHS have to frame it, as Blair did, as internal reforms and building an internal market.  As Nigel Lawson said the NHS is the nearest thing we have to religion.

I think for the UK it's because we generally know nothing about the continental European systems so the dichotomy in our mind (especially if the word 'insurance' is mentioned) is between the NHS or privatisation, and we'd choose the NHS every time.

[KRonn]

I am not enthusiastic about this Spicey I just don't really think our present system is worth defending and nobody seems to have any other ideas.  Heck even the Republicans massively expanding federal health benefits.

Ironically despite Democrat claims to the contrary the Democrats seem to want to cut Medicare as part of healthcare reforms.  After a long time of wanting to do something like that Republicans are attacking the Democrats from the left on that

Cutting Medicare has me confused, unless maybe the plan is to move some of the Medicare stuff into the new health plan. Medicare has been in financial trouble, needs fixing as well.

[derspiess]

The same exact thing happened with Bush, except he shifted in the other direction.

Not in every case.

[Razgovory]

But yeah the health system is simply messed up and I have no illusions whatever the eventual reform the Dems do it will be any better.

I'm always confused when Americans attack healthcare as if it's going to be socialised, like the NHS.  From what I can tell there are two undeniable truths in healthcare policy: no-one would want to imitate the American system and no-one would want to imitate the British system.

From what I've read you look to be heading to a Dutch/French system with a private insurance market with government regulation and support for the poor.  In Holland last year health insurance premiums fell due to competition which I don't think has happened in the US in a long time.

We are told that apparently a genius like Stephen Hawkings would have died had he lived in Britain.

[Valmy]

We are told that apparently a genius like Stephen Hawkings would have died had he lived in Britain.

The British death panels would have certainly put him to death.  Thank goodness he has never gotten anywhere close to that evil gun-less socialist hell hole.

[Razgovory]

Actually the amount of crazy going around in this debate is reminiscent of another debate in this country 50 years ago.

[BuddhaRhubarb]

That ad is awesome Raz. "Polio Monkey Serums" is the name of my new douchebag indie band.

[garbon]

Doesn't his mom work in Pharma?  wants to keep those drug prices up.

Irrelevant, but I work in pharma.

[Admiral Yi]

I stand corrected Shelf.