The Limits of Free Speech

[Ed Anger]

I'm adding Minority Report to my Netflix queue. I've never seen it.

Okay movie. it was before Tom Cruise and Colin Ferrell turned into douchebags.

[Barrister]

I'm adding Minority Report to my Netflix queue. I've never seen it.

Okay movie. it was before Tom Cruise and Colin Ferrell turned into douchebags.

I didn't know it was made in the early 80s.   

[Fate]

I'm adding Minority Report to my Netflix queue. I've never seen it.

Okay movie. it was before Tom Cruise and Colin Ferrell turned into douchebags.

I didn't know it was made in the early 80s.   

The Cruise douche bag transformation was somewhat later. If any moment captured his doucheization, it'd be his Oprah-on-couch screaming.

[MadImmortalMan]

Okaaay. Now there's this.

HARTFORD, Conn. (AP) - A New Jersey blogger facing charges in two states for allegedly making threats against lawmakers and judges was trained by the FBI on how to be deliberately provocative, his attorney said Tuesday.

Hal Turner worked for the FBI from 2002 to 2007 as an "agent provocateur" and was taught by the agency "what he could say that wouldn't be crossing the line," defense attorney Michael Orozco said.

"His job was basically to publish information which would cause other parties to act in a manner which would lead to their arrest," Orozco said.

Prosecutors have acknowledged that Turner was an informant who spied on radical right-wing organizations, but the defense has said Turner was not working for the FBI when he allegedly made threats against Connecticut legislators and wrote that three federal judges in Illinois deserved to die.

"But if you compare anything that he did say when he was operating, there was no difference. No difference whatsoever," Orozco said.

Special Agent Ross Rice, a spokesman for the FBI in Chicago, said he would not comment on or even confirm Turner's relationship with the FBI.

Orozco spoke to reporters after a court hearing in Hartford on Tuesday. Turner, 47, of North Bergen, N.J., did not appear, because he is in federal custody in Illinois. His arraignment on the Connecticut charges was rescheduled to Oct. 19.

In June, Turner urged his readers to "take up arms" against Connecticut lawmakers and suggested government officials should "obey the Constitution or die," because he was angry over legislation—later withdrawn—that would have given lay members of Roman Catholic churches more control over their parish's finances.

He wrote in Internet postings the same month that the Illinois federal appeals judges "deserve to be killed" because they issued a ruling that upheld ordinances in Chicago and suburban Oak Park banning handguns. He included their photos and the room numbers of their chambers at the courthouse.

Orozco officially joined Turner's defense team in the Connecticut case on Tuesday, with approval from Superior Court Judge David Gold. Orozco said his Newark, N.J.-based firm has been representing Turner for the past five years, including during his FBI informant years.

Turner's Connecticut attorney, Matthew R. Potter, said it's too early to tell which trial will move forward first. Orozco said he plans First Amendment defenses in both cases.

Randall Samborn, a spokesman for the U.S. attorney's office in Chicago, said the office would not comment on Orozco's statements.

[Sheilbh]

This story's incredible

[Ed Anger]

The NSA turned me into an asshole.

[DontSayBanana]

I am not talking about a radical fringe.  I am talking about people who are quite moderate on this board.  There was a pretty long period when only I and JR (with some occasional help) took the position that what Bush was doing was unconstitutional (though maybe Ideologue was in that camp as well).

I was pretty astonished.  I couldn't believe so many people here simply accepted Bush's claims uncritically.

Vocally, at least. I'm pretty sure I never claimed that Bush's actions affecting detainees were legal.

Anyway, basing any definite of "moderate" on posts here? Dabbling in a bit of Marti-quality analogy, are we? I mean, here, "moderate" is those of us who don't burn effigies of either Barack Obama and Joe Biden or Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin.

[DontSayBanana]

So, since the guy was an agent provocateur and was trained what to say without crossing the line, he couldn't possibly have acted improperly and said something that crossed the line?

I predict: First Amendment defense epic fail.

[Eddie Teach]

Anyway, basing any definite of "moderate" on posts here? Dabbling in a bit of Marti-quality analogy, are we? I mean, here, "moderate" is those of us who don't burn effigies of either Barack Obama and Joe Biden or Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin.

I'm a moderate.

[DontSayBanana]

Anyway, basing any definite of "moderate" on posts here? Dabbling in a bit of Marti-quality analogy, are we? I mean, here, "moderate" is those of us who don't burn effigies of either Barack Obama and Joe Biden or Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin.

I'm a moderate.

Humor. Wink smiley. Laugh.

[Eddie Teach]

Humor. Wink smiley. Laugh.

[The Minsky Moment]

If true, the level of stupidity that must exist within the FBI boggles the mind.

[Razgovory]

If true, the level of stupidity that must exist within the FBI boggles the mind.

I'm not sure if I buy this.

[DGuller]

The notion that FBI has agents provocateurs is beyond idiotic.  Anyone who makes such stuff up should be killed.  Who's with me?

[BuddhaRhubarb]

John Stewart made an interesting "freedom of expression"point last night. At a recent AZ speech Obama made on death panels(sic) etc... there were several dudes with loaded automatic weapons there protesting. Nothing happened to these guys. no big deal apparently.

Yet when Bush was stumping Iraq invasions etc and people wore crappily made anti-Bush t-shirts, they were arrested. t-shirts are more dangerous than assault rifles? America is so diverse. :p