Ze burkini is a problem with Ze France

[sbr]

FYI I don't see this as a black and white issue.  But I would like to address a previous question to you: if women-only swimming hours are an acceptable accomodation for modest women, wouldn't straights-only swimming hours for modest straights also be appropriate?

How do you check if someone is gay or straight?

Put on a Madonna video.

[Admiral Yi]

Surely you recognize that what is being discussed is called segregation?  And once you accept the principle of it for small unimportant things, it's only a matter of time before it becomes an option for other things that matter.

What amazes me is that I have to spell this out for you people.




G.

In your previous post you said ALL customs must be respected by immigrants.  If we're talking about all customs then that includes some that are trivial.

The swimming pool also includes the principle of modesty, considered by many in the West to be a virtue.

[Sheilbh]

You know, this isn't at all true.  Many men feel the same way.  I've known some overweight dudes that were very sensitive about going to the pool.  Were they giant pussies?  Sure, to an extent, but that's not my point.  Their embarassment was understandable, because women judge at least as severely as men, and probably moreso, given their limited reproductive carrying capacity plus having been shaped by the devil and all.

I've been thinking about this and I feel sorry for the sensitive fat guys.  The girls I understand.  They feel a bit chubby one day or are just generally insecure so it's nicer for them to swim in an all-female environment, they feel less insecure there and other women are supportive.

During the male only hours it would take one 16 year old dick to ruin the fat guys time.  That seems far more likely in the all-male time than the all-female time

[Crazy_Ivan80]

You know, this isn't at all true.  Many men feel the same way.  I've known some overweight dudes that were very sensitive about going to the pool.  Were they giant pussies?  Sure, to an extent, but that's not my point.  Their embarassment was understandable, because women judge at least as severely as men, and probably moreso, given their limited reproductive carrying capacity plus having been shaped by the devil and all.

I've been thinking about this and I feel sorry for the sensitive fat guys.  The girls I understand.  They feel a bit chubby one day or are just generally insecure so it's nicer for them to swim in an all-female environment, they feel less insecure there and other women are supportive.

During the male only hours it would take one 16 year old dick to ruin the fat guys time.  That seems far more likely in the all-male time than the all-female time

see, better that everyoen suffers at once and equally.

[Slargos]

FYI I don't see this as a black and white issue.  But I would like to address a previous question to you: if women-only swimming hours are an acceptable accomodation for modest women, wouldn't straights-only swimming hours for modest straights also be appropriate?

How do you check if someone is gay or straight?

You make a good point. We really need some sort of identifier.

Perhaps some sort of facial branding.

[Admiral Yi]

How do you check if someone is gay or straight?

Put one of those Barrister Boy Hardon Meters on everyone as they come in.

[Iormlund]

I'm an overweight woman approaching 40. I'm already insecure about how I look and how men see me. The last thing I want is for men to witness me struggling through a workout routine, sweating like a cow, barely able to keep up. Add the adorable, perky little 20-something women that seem to populate these places, where the men ogle them openly while wrinkling their noses at the likes of me (whether for real or in my imagination, it's irrelevant), and you've got a set up of pure hell.

Let me go work out in peace, so I can just get through the damn exercises without worrying about if I look fat, out of shape, or hideous to any men around while doing so. I know I look fat; that's why I'm at the stupid gym to begin with.

And I'll add this: a woman-only swim time sounds heavenly. I could wear a bikini and tan without worrying how horrible I look, because I couldn't care less what women think about that. I could swim without swim shorts because I wouldn't have to worry about unsightly thigh fat or *coughs* unexpected hairs popping out.

You have no idea how different going to a pool is for women than it is for men. You throw on a pair of shorts and hit the water. We spend hours shaving, prepping, doing sit-ups, etc., before we ever get to the pool, and believe me, we don't do it for the other women who are going to be there.

You're giving it way too much importance. If you're hot (and you can be quite HOTT even if you're not a 20 yo bunny) you'll get noticed and I'll glance at you in appreciation, float around and if you give me an opening even make a fool of myself trying to score with you. If you're not, it doesn't matter, because unless you're a monster (which I doubt) I won't notice you at all. You just won't get past the filter.
Unconscious routines make sure I don't waste brain cycles thinking about how fat that random guy is or laughing at how big that chick's ass looks. I'm probably drooling at the nice lady by my side instead (which is a great exercise motivator), or looking at my triceps in the mirror, or focusing on my respiration as I lift weights, or singing along to my MP3 collection ...

[merithyn]

Where do you go?  The local college gym?  Gym bunnies are us?  Because I usually see a whole range of ages and shapes.  Besides 20-somethings are notoriously lazy and I highly doubt they all go to the gym as regularly as you think.  I certainly struggled keeping a work out routine when I was in my 20s and heck I simply didn't need to as much.

I don't go, and that's why I'm overweight. Seriously, I live in a college town. When I belonged to a gym here, most of the people were already in shape and just wanted to tone up, or were desperately trying to lose those unsightly 10 pounds clinging to their thighs. The overweight folks generally do mall walking and weight watchers.

While I certainly may note a woman is attractive I am there to do my work out and leave.  Secondly shouldn't it be us the men who should feel insecure we have to struggle through routines?  We are the ones who are supposed to be macho macho super confident whatevers.  I just have a very hard time accepting the fact that you really cannot go out in public without worrying that much what perfect strangers think of you...who cares?  Your husband is probably way hotter than those losers you are worried about judging you.

It's not that I don't want guys judging me. I don't want anyone judging me. Making a gym female-only does two things: 1.) takes the men out of the equation, which is the only gender whose opinion matters to me on how I look; and 2.) halves the number of people likely to come.

Finally Meri you are cute so it is totally irrational.

See, now for that, you get huge huggles. 

Yes and actually I find it rather inspiring when I see overweight people working out.  They are trying to take control of their lives and that kicks ass also I am still overweight myself.  Also...um correct me if I am wrong but women are WAY more judgemental about each others bodies than we are.  Heck look at me and Caliga we would be all over the better endowed women...but in any case why do you care that much what we think?

I think for me it's more of a sensitivity thing. I don't want anyone watching me while I jiggle, huff and puff my way through a work out. I just seem to care more about whether a guy is watching than a woman. I've had plenty of practice dealing with snide women, and am perfectly capable of ignoring them at will. Petty isn't pretty, as my mom used to say.

Whatever most of the men out there look like shit with their big bellies hanging out.  I wish they would spend hours not making the rest of us go blind.

I guess I just don't get it.  Why is it oh so horrible for men to judge you but just fine for women to be assholes?  What sort of ridiculous double standard is that?  I mean it is not like the impression you made on the guy will stay in his mind for more than .00001 seconds and besides we expect most women at the pool to not be 20-something gym bunnies.  As I said before alot do not even like 20-something gym bunnies.

Honestly, most men I know don't even consider that they may be unattractive with that extra 30-40 pounds hanging on them. The ones seem to notice/care are those that are approaching 80-90 pounds overweight. And, let's be real, women are for more forgiving of a few extra pounds on men than men are on women.

Most of the time, I don't give a shit. If I'm hauling my ass out to exercise, whoever is there to watch and laugh can bite said ass. Their opinion means very little to me 90% of the time.

However, the things I said are valid for a lot of women and me during that 10% that I'm feeling particularly overweight/unattractive, and makes the idea of a women-only gym/pool very attractive.

[Siege]

This is awesome I haven't had a good discussion like this with Merithyn in a while. 

Ah, damit. Now I have to read the whole thread instead of just reading the last page.

I fucking hate you.

[Eddie Teach]

h, damit. Now I have to read the whole thread instead of just reading the last page.

I fucking hate you.

There are links to Miley Cyrus nudie pics somewhere on the front page of the forum. Not gonna tell you which thread.

[lustindarkness]

h, damit. Now I have to read the whole thread instead of just reading the last page.

I fucking hate you.

There are links to Miley Cyrus nudie pics somewhere on the front page of the forum. Not gonna tell you which thread.

Ah, damit. Now I have to read the whole first page instead of just reading the usual ones.

I fucking hate you.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

However, the things I said are valid for a lot of women and me during that 10% that I'm feeling particularly overweight/unattractive, and makes the idea of a women-only gym/pool very attractive.

of course the core of the issue is that it can be reasonably suspected that those muslims women are not asking it because of those reasons but because their men (usually) don't allow them to mix because it's against their retarded religion.
In such a case the solution isn't segregation as it is giving in to those medieval views, the solution is making it clear to these men that they're living in the civilised world and that if they don't like it they should pack their bags and go back whence they came from.
The Maghreb and such is big enough as it is, there's no need to make it bigger by adding europe to it.

[Sheilbh]

Just to be clear it's not necessarily to do with mixing (which  is extreme) as it is to do with mixing in a piece of lycra.

[garbon]

*anti-Islam babble*

[Zoupa]

Is anyone forcing you to read it?