Israeli atrocities in Gaza

[frunk]

And there are many places in LA where you could fire rockets without risking civilian lives in the retaliatory strikes.

Except LA is >10 times the area of the least dense area of Gaza, meaning it's easier to have greater/lesser concentrations of population.  The swaths of population density on the given map don't give the detail necessary to tell if it is concentrated on the coast, inland or spread more uniformly.

[Berkut]

Stick to playing WoW, son. You aren't ready to step out into the real world. A population density of 2,738/km^2 is considered high. 

So high that there is nowhere to go and fire a rocket without endangering anyone?

Fail. Again.

I can see we are shifting to the ad hom portion of the debate.

[The Brain]

I bet your example of density is for Los Angeles county as a whole - and there are going to be parts of that where you probably cannot even see another person.

No one that will be missed, at least.

[frunk]

The built up portions of LA are all well over 10k/mile^2. I bet your example of density is for Los Angeles county as a whole - and there are going to be parts of that where you probably cannot even see another person.

It's for the city proper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_population

[Richard Hakluyt]

Take a look at the Gaza strip using google earth guys; there are clearly built-up areas but also relatively empty areas with fields and olive groves.

[Berkut]

The built up portions of LA are all well over 10k/mile^2. I bet your example of density is for Los Angeles county as a whole - and there are going to be parts of that where you probably cannot even see another person.

It's for the city proper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_population

Exactly. And the city proper of LA is over 1200 square miles - it is huge.

The urban portions are going to be over 10l/mile^2. THAT is the densely populated parts where you could argue that you cannot go anywhere and butcher enemy civlians without endagering civilians.

The non-urban areas are going to be an order of magnitude less dense.

I would bet that the distribution is even more exterme in Gaza, and in fact more than 50% ofthe population of Gaza lives in the "urban" parts of the territory.

So, like I said - the urban parts are incredibly dense, the other parts, not so dense. Plenty of space to go shoot rockets without endangering too many of your own civlians. If you wanted to. Which they don't.

[Fate]

Stick to playing WoW, son. You aren't ready to step out into the real world. A population density of 2,738/km^2 is considered high. 

So high that there is nowhere to go and fire a rocket without endangering anyone?

Yes, Israeli responds with disproportionate force. There is no where in Gaza to fire a rocket without endangering any Palestinians.

[Berkut]

Take a look at the Gaza strip using google earth guys; there are clearly built-up areas but also relatively empty areas with fields and olive groves.

you cannot expect them to risk the olive groves!

[Berkut]

Stick to playing WoW, son. You aren't ready to step out into the real world. A population density of 2,738/km^2 is considered high. 

So high that there is nowhere to go and fire a rocket without endangering anyone?

Yes, Israeli responds with disproportionate force. There is no where in Gaza to fire a rocket without endangering any Palestinians.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=gaza&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=46.27475,56.953125&ie=UTF8&ll=31.44071,34.435208&spn=0.012248,0.013905&t=h&z=16

[Fate]

Stick to playing WoW, son. You aren't ready to step out into the real world. A population density of 2,738/km^2 is considered high. 

So high that there is nowhere to go and fire a rocket without endangering anyone?

Yes, Israeli responds with disproportionate force. There is no where in Gaza to fire a rocket without endangering any Palestinians.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=gaza&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=46.27475,56.953125&ie=UTF8&ll=31.44071,34.435208&spn=0.012248,0.013905&t=h&z=16

That region is within the Israeli security buffer. Google maps don't reflect real lines of control. You fail, again.

[The Minsky Moment]

There is no where in Gaza to fire a rocket without endangering any Palestinians.

You are wrong.  No doubt to everyone's great surprise

People, google maps is your friend.

Try looking in the south between Rafah and Han Yunes.  There is a huge area where there is just dirt.  No settlement.

There are similar low settlement areas to be found between Washsh and Nuseirat, and between Kuba and Bureij on the Palestinian side of the Armistice line.  There is also a relatively empty area to the far northeast on the Palestinian side of the Armistice Line.

Here endeth the lesson.

[Berkut]

Take a look at the Gaza strip using google earth guys; there are clearly built-up areas but also relatively empty areas with fields and olive groves.

Actually, if you look at google maps, the built up areas are msotly along the coast- away from Israel. The better places to launch short ranged rocket attacks seems to be from what looks like most farmland.

This is some epic fail in posting - it actually looks like Hamas probably has to WORK to find good launch site that are close to civilians!

[Berkut]

Stick to playing WoW, son. You aren't ready to step out into the real world. A population density of 2,738/km^2 is considered high. 

So high that there is nowhere to go and fire a rocket without endangering anyone?

Yes, Israeli responds with disproportionate force. There is no where in Gaza to fire a rocket without endangering any Palestinians.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=gaza&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=46.27475,56.953125&ie=UTF8&ll=31.44071,34.435208&spn=0.012248,0.013905&t=h&z=16

That region is within the Israeli security buffer. Google maps don't reflect real lines of control. You fail, again.

Ah, so I guess then you cannot find any regions not in the buffer zone that are not built up, right?

And of course you looked, right? Because you would never just pull shit like that right out of your ass? Right?

[Fate]

There is no where in Gaza to fire a rocket without endangering any Palestinians.

You are wrong.  No doubt to everyone's great surprise

People, google maps is your friend.

Try looking in the south between Rafah and Han Yunes.  There is a huge area where there is just dirt.  No settlement.

There are similar low settlement areas to be found between Washsh and Nuseirat, and between Kuba and Bureij on the Palestinian side of the Armistice line.  There is also a relatively empty area to the far northeast on the Palestinian side of the Armistice Line.

Here endeth the lesson.

You do need a lesson. Rockets are fired from those areas all of the time. Israel responds by bombing civilian infrastructure in urbanized areas with F-16s. Clearly there is no where to fire a rocket at military targets in Israel without endangering Palestinian civilians.

[Valmy]

Considering Fate's obvious insider and intimate knowledge of Hamas I have to say you must be mistaken Berkut.

All I need to know about Hamas is when the US promised them everything in exchange for nothing, merely the symbolic gesture of saying Israel had the right to exist, they could not even do that.  I do not really see what good people who will not even negotiate on those terms can do and I have no reason to believe they are honest brokers trying to do the right thing by the Palestinian people.