Israel-Hamas War 2023

[OttoVonBismarck]

If Hamas or Hezbollah had used a similar tactic, something tells me people wouldn't be finding the move so awesome.

Correct, because we don't like evil terrorist groups. Something the anti-Israeli contingent on here has never understood. Palestinians are evil terrorists.

[Valmy]

If Hamas or Hezbollah had used a similar tactic, something tells me people wouldn't be finding the move so awesome.

Correct, because we don't like evil terrorist groups. Something the anti-Israeli contingent on here has never understood. Palestinians are evil terrorists.

I know a Palestinian and she isn't evil, at least not evil enough to support Donald Trump unlike some people

Anyway Hezbollah is Lebanese.

Anyway how I would feel about a cell phone targeted attack Hezbollah or Hamas depends on who exactly got blown up. If it was psychopaths on the Israeli side equivalent to Hamas or Hezbollah  I would probably be really impressed that those two brain dead organizations actually managed to do something right. But, of course, that would never happen because both Hezbollah and Hamas are interested in killing Arabs and making life for Arabs as horrible as possible so doing something that might actually help Arabs would not be on their agenda. They would probably do something incompetent that would only piss the Israelis off and would empower the most psychopathic of the Israelis because that seems to be their MO.

Then, if they are Hamas, they hide out in Qatar while regular everyday men, women, and children take the brunt of the consequences of their idiotic choices. And probably high-five at a job well done.

[DGuller]

If Hamas or Hezbollah had used a similar tactic, something tells me people wouldn't be finding the move so awesome.

If Bin Laden's team raided the White House, shot Obama, and dumped his body in the Potomac, I wouldn't find it as awesome as the Pakistan raid either.  I guess some people find anti-terrorist actions to be more awesome than terrorist acts.

[Tonitrus]

The real concern that one should consider (and I am sure intelligence agencies around the world are considering it), is if Israel can infiltrate a supply chain and do this to pagers...how safe are other devices from the PRC, Russia or even other more benign-seeming supply chains?

While it seems nice that one might assume that Mossad probably knew that mostly/only Hezbollah would resort to going technologically backwards and using pocket pagers (which would make sure the supply chain infiltration is likely minimal)...and can probably also keep some control in targeting only specific pager number sets...there probably are quite a few people at 3-letter agencies who are now losing sleep and scrambling to do reports and analysis on possible infiltration of other mobile device supply chains.

[Threviel]

I would be very disappointed if this kind of attack vector is news for any serious intelligence agency.

[PJL]

The real concern that one should consider (and I am sure intelligence agencies around the world are considering it), is if Israel can infiltrate a supply chain and do this to pagers...how safe are other devices from the PRC, Russia or even other more benign-seeming supply chains?

While it seems nice that one might assume that Mossad probably knew that mostly/only Hezbollah would resort to going technologically backwards and using pocket pagers (which would make sure the supply chain infiltration is likely minimal)...and can probably also keep some control in targeting only specific pager number sets...there probably are quite a few people at 3-letter agencies who are now losing sleep and scrambling to do reports and analysis on possible infiltration of other mobile device supply chains.

Yes, this is the real concern here. Regardless, it's likely to make complex global supply chains even more expensive in order to maintain security and continuity.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I know a Palestinian and she isn't evil, at least not evil enough to support Donald Trump unlike some people

Palestinian refers exclusively to "anti-Israeli Arabs who live in Gaza or the West Bank." Since there is no "Palestinian ethnicity", language, culture or history, and I doubt you have been spending time in Gaza or the WB, I suspect you mean that you know an Arab. And sure, many Arabs are good people, most in fact I can assume are no worse than the average humans.

Your point about Hezbollah being Lebanese is correct though, so on that point I would concede--but we also can say Hezbollah is an evil terrorist group and it is very good when they die violently.

[Josquius]

I know a Palestinian and she isn't evil, at least not evil enough to support Donald Trump unlike some people

Palestinian refers exclusively to "anti-Israeli Arabs who live in Gaza or the West Bank." Since there is no "Palestinian ethnicity", language, culture or history, and I doubt you have been spending time in Gaza or the WB, I suspect you mean that you know an Arab. And sure, many Arabs are good people, most in fact I can assume are no worse than the average humans.

Your point about Hezbollah being Lebanese is correct though, so on that point I would concede--but we also can say Hezbollah is an evil terrorist group and it is very good when they die violently.

Well this takes the prize for one of the most moronic things I've read this year.

What is it with some people and this insistence Arabs are a monolithic block.

[Admiral Yi]

If Hamas or Hezbollah had used a similar tactic, something tells me people wouldn't be finding the move so awesome.

When I first learned about the 10/7 attack I was impressed by the careful planning that went into it.

[The Minsky Moment]

There is a Palestinian nation now, thanks to Israel.  That's often how nationalisms work, generating reactively in response to another nationalism.

[crazy canuck]

I wonder whether the Israeli attack was actually a blunder. Wouldn't it have made sense to save it for when disrupting Hezbollah C&C mattered most? 

[OttoVonBismarck]

I know a Palestinian and she isn't evil, at least not evil enough to support Donald Trump unlike some people

Palestinian refers exclusively to "anti-Israeli Arabs who live in Gaza or the West Bank." Since there is no "Palestinian ethnicity", language, culture or history, and I doubt you have been spending time in Gaza or the WB, I suspect you mean that you know an Arab. And sure, many Arabs are good people, most in fact I can assume are no worse than the average humans.

Your point about Hezbollah being Lebanese is correct though, so on that point I would concede--but we also can say Hezbollah is an evil terrorist group and it is very good when they die violently.

Well this takes the prize for one of the most moronic things I've read this year.

What is it with some people and this insistence Arabs are a monolithic block.

No one said they are monolithic, that is an inference you drew, and was never implied or typed by me.

[Tamas]

I wonder whether the Israeli attack was actually a blunder. Wouldn't it have made sense to save it for when disrupting Hezbollah C&C mattered most? 

I read in some article (summary) somewhere thst maybe the Israelis were worried their scheme would be discovered.

Then again maybe they had intel that hezbollah was preparing something big and wanted to prevent or delay it.

[grumbler]

This argument that "Palestinian" has no "language, culture or history" basis is rich coming from a supporter of Israel, which is much farther from having a basis in any of those.

I could as easily describe "Israeli" as referring "exclusively to 'Arab-murdering Jews who desire lebensraum in Gaza and the West Bank.'"  It would be absurd, but so is any definition of any group of people/state that ignores politics.

[The Minsky Moment]

The statement could have been made accurately in 1900.  "Palestine" was a term up to that point mainly used by Europeans with a classical education.  For almost all the Ottoman period, those lands were part of the Damascus province; they were "Syrian". Very late, the lands around Jerusalem were spun off into a separate province directly run from Istanbul, most likely for security reasons. 

It's well known there was Jewish migration into the region in the late 19th century and increasing in the first half of the 20th.  What is less known is that there were also significant levels of Arab migration from other areas during the mandatory period. So just as many Israelis descend from immigrants from elsewhere the same is true for some Palestinians as well.

What cemented Palestinian identity as Palestinian were two things: (1) Zionism, and (2) the utter failure of other Arab and Muslim powers to defeat Zionism.  It's origin is as a reactive nationalism, but that is not an unusual origin, nor does it make it any less legitimate.

Zionism and Palestinian nationalisms are both nationalisms and their validity stands on equal terms with each other *as well as other nationalisms* Arguments to the contrary, whether made by pro-Zionists seeking to devalue Palestinian self-determination or by either Western leftists or antisemites seeking to devalue Zionism, all proceed from the same error that certain nationalisms are "natural" or "organic" and thereby superior to others.  There is no such thing as a "natural" nationalism, and nationalisms do not exist in nature.  They are all artifices.