Vote in the Dutch general election

[celedhring]

15-ish parties in a 150-seat parliament seems pretty excessive, indeed.

[Maladict]

15-ish parties in a 150-seat parliament seems pretty excessive, indeed.

Yeah, ten or so would be better. But I'll take fifteen over five.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Amazing thing is the decline of GroenLinks and SP but no recovery of PvdA. Ongoing death of the European left

excellent

[Sheilbh]

Very interesting analysis of young voters, almost none of them voted CDA, PvdA or SP.
Three traditional pillars of the old order, totally unable to connect with the new generations in a way VVD and D66 can.
Hopefully this will lead to some changes on the left, the merger of PvdA and GL would be a start.

I do find the fact that VVD and D66 - both liberal parties - are doing well really striking especially as it was, in the round, a pretty good night for the right-populists/far-right too. The right-liberals and social liberals had a net gain of 11, the various right/far-righ populists had a net gain of 6 and the left had a net loss of 12. And the old mainstream right down by 5-6 to a record low?

It does seem to suggest the importance of culture/values/identity as key drivers, perhaps especially with younger voters.

I have hopes for D66 now, as I've always found them one of the most frustrating/disappointing parties in Europe. But now they can't just fold and have the numbers to make some demands - hopefully.

[Maladict]

Very interesting analysis of young voters, almost none of them voted CDA, PvdA or SP.
Three traditional pillars of the old order, totally unable to connect with the new generations in a way VVD and D66 can.
Hopefully this will lead to some changes on the left, the merger of PvdA and GL would be a start.

I do find the fact that VVD and D66 - both liberal parties - are doing well really striking especially as it was, in the round, a pretty good night for the right-populists/far-right too. The right-liberals and social liberals had a net gain of 11, the various right/far-righ populists had a net gain of 6 and the left had a net loss of 12. And the old mainstream right down by 5-6 to a record low?

It does seem to suggest the importance of culture/values/identity as key drivers, perhaps especially with younger voters.

I have hopes for D66 now, as I've always found them one of the most frustrating/disappointing parties in Europe. But now they can't just fold and have the numbers to make some demands - hopefully.

Not as striking as a Brit being so well versed in Dutch politics. Let me post this political compass for anyone else interested.


But yes, good point. Identity as a driver for (young) voters is definitely a reason the the emergence of all those new parties. And new parties that actually won seats, too.

Now that the final count is near, the situation for D66 is less rosy. They're down to 24 seats, VVD up one or two.
Two main roads to a coalition are now likely:
- VVD, D66, CDA and a small fourth party. D66 doesn't really want CDA in the coalition, as they're blocking medical-ethical reforms. But there's no real alternative unless you consider a five-party coalition, which nobody really wants. The fourth party could be Volt, ideologically very close to D66 but they're new and unproven. The other minnows are either too radical voor VVD or too conservative for D66.
- A minority coalition of VVD, D66 and CDA. The will need to ask support for everything, but with so many parties that could be manageable. Still, CDA will need to bow to D66's demands on ethics. They might pass on governing instead, and not alienate their voters any further.

[Admiral Yi]

Linkes/Rechts on one axis and Progressief/Conservatief on the other is kind of confusing.

Does the first refer to money and the second to cultural issues/immigration?

[The Larch]

15-ish parties in a 150-seat parliament seems pretty excessive, indeed.

Yeah, without knowing more about the different parties and their fault lines, I don't see what's the point of a separate Socialist and Labour party, or separate Green and Animals party, or two different christian democrat parties.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah, without knowing more about the different parties and their fault lines, I don't see what's the point of a separate Socialist and Labour party, or separate Green and Animals party, or two different christian democrat parties.

I agree on some of the single issue parties - like animal rights or the elderly etc. But from my understanding Socialist v Labour is a bit like a very early version of a the facturing of the left we see across Europe (Die Linke, France Insoumise, Podemos etc). I think they actually started as Maoists in post-68 but have only really had success when they've become a more centrist/mainstream hard left party. And, you know, when a Labour politician (a Labour politician!) is the hardline Dutch finance minister during the Eurozone crisis I think it's understandable that you might need a left alternative

[crazy canuck]

15-ish parties in a 150-seat parliament seems pretty excessive, indeed.

Yeah, without knowing more about the different parties and their fault lines, I don't see what's the point of a separate Socialist and Labour party, or separate Green and Animals party, or two different christian democrat parties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS-0Az7dgRY

[The Larch]

15-ish parties in a 150-seat parliament seems pretty excessive, indeed.

Yeah, without knowing more about the different parties and their fault lines, I don't see what's the point of a separate Socialist and Labour party, or separate Green and Animals party, or two different christian democrat parties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS-0Az7dgRY

That's a given.  Then again most of those splitters don't get into parliament. 

[Maladict]

Linkes/Rechts on one axis and Progressief/Conservatief on the other is kind of confusing.

Does the first refer to money and the second to cultural issues/immigration?

Broadly yes. Economic vs social issues.

[Maladict]

15-ish parties in a 150-seat parliament seems pretty excessive, indeed.

Yeah, without knowing more about the different parties and their fault lines, I don't see what's the point of a separate Socialist and Labour party, or separate Green and Animals party, or two different christian democrat parties.

SP comes from a revolutionary idea, Labour does not. SP is populist, anti-Europe and anti-globalisation, Labour is not.

Of the three Christian parties CU is the most progressive, especially on climate matters. CDA prefers to keep the status quo, SGP wants to go back a century.

Differences between Animals and Greens are smaller, typically the same goals but different ways of getting there. And the Greens have been trying to make themselves attractive as coalition partners, whereas the Animals remain an opposition party.

[Maladict]

when a Labour politician (a Labour politician!) is the hardline Dutch finance minister during the Eurozone crisis I think it's understandable that you might need a left alternative

Frugality is the one thing that unites us 

[The Larch]

15-ish parties in a 150-seat parliament seems pretty excessive, indeed.

Yeah, without knowing more about the different parties and their fault lines, I don't see what's the point of a separate Socialist and Labour party, or separate Green and Animals party, or two different christian democrat parties.

SP comes from a revolutionary idea, Labour does not. SP is populist, anti-Europe and anti-globalisation, Labour is not.

Of the three Christian parties CU is the most progressive, especially on climate matters. CDA prefers to keep the status quo, SGP wants to go back a century.

Differences between Animals and Greens are smaller, typically the same goals but different ways of getting there. And the Greens have been trying to make themselves attractive as coalition partners, whereas the Animals remain an opposition party.

Ok, so your Socialists would be what the old school commies would be in many other countries, right?

Regarding Christian Democrats I was meaning CU and CDA. The calvinists are such an oddity to me that I can't even calibrate them. 

The Dutch Greens must feel somehow closer to the German ones, right? At least in terms of becoming (or wanting to become) a serious coalition partner rather than a protest/oposition party like the Animals, which I guess are still in their political infancy and maybe only want to bring their issue to the public rather than participate in governing.

[Sheilbh]

when a Labour politician (a Labour politician!) is the hardline Dutch finance minister during the Eurozone crisis I think it's understandable that you might need a left alternative

Frugality is the one thing that unites us 

Monsters