JK Rowling reveals she is survivor of domestic abuse and sexual assault

[DGuller]

Are we back to binary on the gender thing?  It's so easy to miss an update, especially with none of this being up for debate.

[grumbler]

Sex, gender, and orientation are all different things.  None of them are binary, but sex is closer to binary than the others.

[Valmy]

I have always been more analog myself.

[The Brain]

I have always been more analog myself.

Did you ask for it?

[Valmy]

I always ask for analog. You just dont want spring that on somebody.

[Admiral Yi]

That one was settled years ago.
Trans women are women, trans men are men. This is not open to debate.

Whether due to their special circumstances they need to be treat differently when it comes to sports... That is an iffier proposition.

If participation in women's sports, or use of women's facilities like changing rooms and domestic abuse shelters, is in fact an iffier proposition, what is the significance of saying trans women are women (and it's not open for debate)? 

[Eddie Teach]

Now that I think about it, Tamas's plan would also amount to a cis-woman only league. Trans-women would be excluded due to biology and trans-men due to banned substances.

[Tamas]

Now that I think about it, Tamas's plan would also amount to a cis-woman only league. Trans-women would be excluded due to biology and trans-men due to banned substances.

There is an untold mass of people barred from all kind of sports because they lack the genetic traits to be able to compete effectively, yet there is no fuss made.

[Josquius]

That one was settled years ago.
Trans women are women, trans men are men. This is not open to debate.

Whether due to their special circumstances they need to be treat differently when it comes to sports... That is an iffier proposition.

If participation in women's sports, or use of women's facilities like changing rooms and domestic abuse shelters, is in fact an iffier proposition, what is the significance of saying trans women are women (and it's not open for debate)? 

There are those who would take the valid issue for sports rules makers of determining whether trans people can be involved and to what level, and use this as a crow bar for the broader issue of whether trans people are legitimately of their new gender or not. An issue which is pretty settled in favour of letting trans people be but nonetheless reactionaries are keen to push back and are grasping for any excuse to do this.

It's important not to mix the two completely seperate issues up.
For instance way back before he shot his wife I believe Oscar Pretorius was starting to compete beyond para athletics and in regular athletics. There was a debate to be had here as to whether that was acceptable as its perfectly possible to imagine his tech-legs giving him an advantage over those with biological legs.
But this in no way infringes on the fact he is undoubtedly a man.

[Admiral Yi]

There are those who would take the valid issue for sports rules makers of determining whether trans people can be involved and to what level, and use this as a crow bar for the broader issue of whether trans people are legitimately of their new gender or not. An issue which is pretty settled in favour of letting trans people be but nonetheless reactionaries are keen to push back and are grasping for any excuse to do this.

It's important not to mix the two completely seperate issues up.
For instance way back before he shot his wife I believe Oscar Pretorius was starting to compete beyond para athletics and in regular athletics. There was a debate to be had here as to whether that was acceptable as its perfectly possible to imagine his tech-legs giving him an advantage over those with biological legs.
But this in no way infringes on the fact he is undoubtedly a man.

You didn't answer the question.  If reactionaries, crowbar, etc. etc., why do we care?  What is the significance?  What are the conclusions that flow out of saying trans women are legitimately women?

[The Brain]

My impression is that it's a common position that trans women should be treated as women except in situations where the feelings or profits of cis women professional athletes are hurt. I could be mistaken though.

[Josquius]

There are those who would take the valid issue for sports rules makers of determining whether trans people can be involved and to what level, and use this as a crow bar for the broader issue of whether trans people are legitimately of their new gender or not. An issue which is pretty settled in favour of letting trans people be but nonetheless reactionaries are keen to push back and are grasping for any excuse to do this.

It's important not to mix the two completely seperate issues up.
For instance way back before he shot his wife I believe Oscar Pretorius was starting to compete beyond para athletics and in regular athletics. There was a debate to be had here as to whether that was acceptable as its perfectly possible to imagine his tech-legs giving him an advantage over those with biological legs.
But this in no way infringes on the fact he is undoubtedly a man.

You didn't answer the question.  If reactionaries, crowbar, etc. etc., why do we care?  What is the significance?  What are the conclusions that flow out of saying trans women are legitimately women?

I answered you directly. They're two different issues and it's a mistake to conflate them.

[Admiral Yi]

Well, you didn't, you just restated the premise.  "It's a mistake" does not explain why it's a mistake.

Brain, you subscribe to this newsletter.  Maybe you can pitch in?

[The Brain]

Well, you didn't, you just restated the premise.  "It's a mistake" does not explain why it's a mistake.

Brain, you subscribe to this newsletter.  Maybe you can pitch in?

Which newsletter? Non-rhetorical.

I have tried in this thread to get a straight answer why sports should be different from other areas regarding trans women, especially since voicing concerns for the safety of cis-women (JK Rowling) makes a person transphobic. I have not managed to get an answer.

[Admiral Yi]

Which newsletter? Non-rhetorical.

I got the impression you felt "trans women are legitimately women" is an important set of words.