Coronavirus Sars-CoV-2/Covid-19 Megathread

[alfred russel]

Why would you possibly think I don't?

Over the many years here on languish you generally frame all your arguments to be about how something affect you personally. Generally it seems to me that dismiss concerns about the potential impact on others as just being "too bad" or "not my problem". On top of that, I don't recall you ever making any kind of argument or statement that indicated an exception for children.

But I could be wrong, of course. Maybe you do care about other people's kids. Which is why I asked you if you do, in case I got you all wrong.

12-18 months ago I was posting long cost vs. benefit analyses and arguing that for non elderly the societal restrictions were far too excessive. You guys made the counterargument "what about the elderly, you are only thinking about yourself". Even if that was true, do you in anyway doubt that I think for 40 somethings the cost benefit analysis showed it was worth it to socialize publicly etc. even before vaccines were available? Assuming that I made that judgment for 40 somethings, how could you plausibly think I'd come to an opposite conclusion for kids who are much less risk?

I never plausibly thought you'd come to the opposite conclusion.

There's a pretty simple heuristic for predicting your conclusions on languish and that's "what's the most convenient for Dorsey" (with a solid secondary of whatever makes for an iconoclastic argument).

You, of course, add a whole bunch of actual arguments - sometimes earnest, sometimes obviously trolling, frequently somewhere in the middle - but the conclusion is typically the same, namely "the only rational conclusion is whatever serves me personally the best, and any potential consequences are completely acceptable, not my concern, and/ or over stated."

Jacob, lets assume you are right and I only care about me.

There was an open question on this forum where the best interest of an unvaccinated 40 something was--ie, should an unvaccinated 40 something go to indoor public spaces like a gym and travel, or if you did a cost vs. benefit analysis you would see that the danger from covid wasn't worth the risk. I obviously spent over a year vociferously arguing that the cost benefit analysis for all of society indicated we should be more open than we were, but surely you won't dispute that I truly believed at least for me--a 40 something male--I weighed looked at the costs and benefits and decided the right decision was to visit places like gyms and airports.

So if you concede that I believed that for an unvaccinated 40 something male, why would you possibly think I'd feel differently for a person in a less at risk age group?

[alfred russel]

1 in every 500 people in the US are now dead from the Coronavirus

Similarly, about 7,000 in every 500 people in the US are dead from cancer and 12,000 in every 500 are dead from heart disease.

So what are you saying? The US is now populated by the undead?

Tim is using all time deaths from covid in his numerator and current living people in his denominator. Figured that would be cool in my comparison too.

The US has only been around two and a half centuries, you're saying 38 times the current population has died from those two diseases.   

I made the numbers up without any thought. I was only trying to point out that Tim was using a numerator of total dead and denominator of current alive and that isn't a great metric.

Worldmeter uses deaths per million, but my number is more intuitive. Saying 5,925 out of every million in Peru have died of Covid is not as intuitive as saying 1 in every 169 have died of Covid.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

I can't believe they let you teach the english language for a living.

[Jacob]

Jacob, lets assume you are right and I only care about me.

There was an open question on this forum where the best interest of an unvaccinated 40 something was--ie, should an unvaccinated 40 something go to indoor public spaces like a gym and travel, or if you did a cost vs. benefit analysis you would see that the danger from covid wasn't worth the risk. I obviously spent over a year vociferously arguing that the cost benefit analysis for all of society indicated we should be more open than we were, but surely you won't dispute that I truly believed at least for me--a 40 something male--I weighed looked at the costs and benefits and decided the right decision was to visit places like gyms and airports.

So if you concede that I believed that for an unvaccinated 40 something male, why would you possibly think I'd feel differently for a person in a less at risk age group?

I'm happy to agree with you that that is your line of reasoning

[alfred russel]

I'm happy to agree with you that that is your line of reasoning

To address your question, "do i give a fuck about other people's kids?", i think you asking the question shows that while you are unable to process other points of view on this topic. Ie, you can acknowledge the rhetorical merit of points being raised, but for whatever reason can't process that people hold such views sincerely, and ultimately ascribe them to moral personal defects (not caring about children, selfishness, not caring about the elderly).

To answer the question, on a superficial level I'd answer that I do give a fuck about other people's kids, just like everyone else who isn't a sociopath. I even favor stuff like additional early childhood education subsidies, and international programs to improve the health and education of children in developing countries, which makes me more enlightened than the average citizen.

On a real level? I strongly believe that Languish (and society) as a whole doesn't give a fuck about other people's kids (I will avoid personalizing this either with me or you which would just be provocative). Languishites in general care about their own kids, the kids in their extended families, and the kids they encounter. They generally want to see things like childhood disease eradicated and wellness to improve in statistical reports.

But just look at this thread--the experience of children in the developing world is both more common and very different than in the middle class developed world we inhabit--but in the thousands of pages of this thread almost nothing has been said. Places without access to stable electric supply (or clean water for that matter) went a year with closed schools--there isn't distance learning going on. That is going to have very profound impacts on those kids, and also the future development of their countries. Look at the massive mortality developing country children have experienced from malaria because of the absence of a vaccine, and how quickly/easily it came for covid (and covid may be providing an impetus to push malaria across the finish line). I watch kids 7 years old spending their days breaking rocks at a stone quarry rather than in school -- presumably because their parents can't pay school fees/need the money -- and the area is currently economically depressed because of a lack of tourists.

[alfred russel]

Joe Biden makes the best move to come out of the executive branch in at least 5 years:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/politics/joe-biden-covid-speech/index.html

At the center of Biden's new plan is directing the Labor Department to require all businesses with 100 or more employees ensure their workers are either vaccinated or tested once a week, an expansive step the President took after consultation with administration health officials and lawyers. Companies could face thousands of dollars in fines per employee if they don't comply.

US Postal Service workers would fall under that rule, a senior administration official told CNN, and employees will be required to be vaccinated or face mandatory weekly testing. The Postal Service, a quasi independent agency, employees more than 640,000 people.

Biden also signed an executive order requiring all government employees be vaccinated against Covid-19, with no option of being regularly tested to opt out. The President signed an accompanying order directing the same standard be applied to employees of contractors who do business with the federal government.

He said 300,000 educators in federal Head Start programs must be vaccinated and called on governors to require vaccinations for schoolteachers and staff.

And Biden announced he would require the 17 million health care workers at facilities receiving funds from Medicare and Medicaid to be fully vaccinated, expanding the mandate to hospitals, home care facilities and dialysis centers around the country.

[Valmy]

Damn Joe. That is the right move and a politically courageous one. I didn't know you had it in you.

Maybe this is the advantage of electing such an old man, he just doesn't care about the next election much.

[11B4V]

Joe Biden makes the best move to come out of the executive branch in at least 5 years:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/politics/joe-biden-covid-speech/index.html

At the center of Biden's new plan is directing the Labor Department to require all businesses with 100 or more employees ensure their workers are either vaccinated or tested once a week, an expansive step the President took after consultation with administration health officials and lawyers. Companies could face thousands of dollars in fines per employee if they don't comply.

US Postal Service workers would fall under that rule, a senior administration official told CNN, and employees will be required to be vaccinated or face mandatory weekly testing. The Postal Service, a quasi independent agency, employees more than 640,000 people.

Biden also signed an executive order requiring all government employees be vaccinated against Covid-19, with no option of being regularly tested to opt out. The President signed an accompanying order directing the same standard be applied to employees of contractors who do business with the federal government.

He said 300,000 educators in federal Head Start programs must be vaccinated and called on governors to require vaccinations for schoolteachers and staff.

And Biden announced he would require the 17 million health care workers at facilities receiving funds from Medicare and Medicaid to be fully vaccinated, expanding the mandate to hospitals, home care facilities and dialysis centers around the country.

Bout time

[jimmy olsen]

Excellent policies

[Eddie Teach]

I am leery of this move. Mah freedom and all.

[Syt]

Yeah, I'm kinda wary of the backlash from the usual suspects.

[Syt]

Acrually, Biden should ban federal resources from prosecuting violations of the policy and should allow people to bring violators to court with a prospect of a $10,000 bounty.

[Admiral Yi]

I am leery of this move. Mah freedom and all.

So we get a test of the private mandate in court and in the future we will know if it flies or not.

[Tamas]

Yeah, I'm kinda wary of the backlash from the usual suspects.

The usual suspects backlash against anything Biden does, they  should be irrelevant.

[Admiral Yi]

The usual suspects are one short of a majority in the Senate and control the Supreme Court 5.5 to 4.5.

[Grey Fox]

Biden also signed an executive order requiring all government employees be vaccinated against Covid-19, with no option of being regularly tested to opt out. The President signed an accompanying order directing the same standard be applied to employees of contractors who do business with the federal government.

Oh shit, my work place is going to have mandatory vaccination.