Coronavirus Sars-CoV-2/Covid-19 Megathread

[Sheilbh]

The purpose of vaccination isn't personal immunity though, it's population immunity.

I totally agree that on a personal level we shouldn't be afraid and we shouldn't be nervous about new variants. But on a social level we should all be cautious until most people have had the vaccine - which, as I say, for the UK and US in only a month or two away - and politically we need an approach to monitor and keep variants out.

Edit: It's a bit like covid overall - on a personal level I've never been particularly worried. I'm pretty low risk (well I thought I was until I was asked to get the vaccine due to some medication I take ). It's about other people.

[alfred russel]

In 5 weeks I'll have gotten my second dose +2 weeks--at that point what is the purpose of wearing a mask in public spaces? I get that there will be an unvaccinated portion of the population among which the disease is spreading, and you can't practically enforce a mask mandate without including everyone. And that there is still a chance of contracting and spreading covid after immunization (though dramatically reduced).

But at a certain point (and soon in the case of the US), we shouldn't fight evolution and the vaccine hesitant should be allowed to live with the consequences of their actions as the rest of us resume normal lives.

On keeping out variants; for places that have open and well traveled borders like the US and UK I think it is hopeless. We will have an approach of course but it will fail.

[Zoupa]

To point out once again the extreme stupidity of both sides:

Take a moment to digest the incredible stupidity in this poll. Over half of people who have already been vaccinated are somewhat or very worried about contracting covid-19. But over 70% of those that are refusing to ever get vaccinated are either not worried or not too worried.

What is really fascinating is that the percentage of people "very worried" about personally contracting the virus is almost identical between those who have received the vaccine and those that say they will get vaccinated. "I believe in science" apparently has its limits.

Let me just repost what I just posted in the behavior thread:

Being vaccinated is not a magical status that means you can't spread the virus anymore. Being vaccinated is supposed to help you fight off the virus if you catch it. You can still be contagious/catch a variant to which your immune system is less prepared/vaccine didn't work for you.

For example the J&J vaccine is 100% effective in terms of hospitalization and death prevention. It's only 65% effective in terms of preventing an actual Sars-Cov2 infection though.

In resumé: shut up Dorsey.

[Sheilbh]

In 5 weeks I'll have gotten my second dose +2 weeks--at that point what is the purpose of wearing a mask in public spaces? I get that there will be an unvaccinated portion of the population among which the disease is spreading, and you can't practically enforce a mask mandate without including everyone. And that there is still a chance of contracting and spreading covid after immunization (though dramatically reduced).

I wear a mask indoors because it's the rules - that's the only reason. I don't wear a mask outdoors because it's not the rules and from everything I've read the chance of outdoors transmission is miniscule (and I've been vaccinated - and there's now research showing that cuts transmission).

But at a certain point (and soon in the case of the US), we shouldn't fight evolution and the vaccine hesitant should be allowed to live with the consequences of their actions as the rest of us resume normal lives.

In the UK we're nowhere near that stage. Uptake has been very high - in the UK it's around 95% in all the groups who've been offered the vaccine so far. We've not yet finished the "Priority 1" group which is basically the over 50s and healthcare and care home workers - they're still being mopped up in a few areas while others are done and are moving on to the next group which in the UK is just age group by decade. At the minute the reason people haven't had the vaccine is because they've not been offered it because we don't have enough. They're lower risk groups sure, but they wouldn't be living with the consequences of their decisions.

I don't really have too many concerns with the proposed re-opening schedule (restrictions listed by end of June) - there's a bunch of stuff like non-essential retailer, hairdressers, hospitality (outdoors) re-opening on Monday, then the next wave is May. There might be another wave of cases (possibly) because younger people who aren't vaccinated yet are more likely to get covid, but they're unlikely to get bad cases and the people who are most vulnerable have been vaccinated so the impact should be a lot lower.

On keeping out variants; for places that have open and well traveled borders like the US and UK I think it is hopeless. We will have an approach of course but it will fail.

Yeah - I think "zero covid" is just a political slogan and people saying we need to be like New Zealand also sort of seem to be arguing that New Zealand never opens its borders fully again. Which I think is probably too far and also not practical for a country with hub airports. At the minute I think we need far more in border restrictions, testing and quarantines - but I'm not aware of any country with hubs or in Europe that's managed to solve this issue. So I don't know what the answer will be.

I imagine testing and gene sequencing of those tests is going to be part of international travel for the forseeable though.

[Tamas]

https://apnews.com/article/beijing-immunizations-chengdu-coronavirus-pandemic-china-675bcb6b5710c7329823148ffbff6ef9

BEIJING (AP) — In a rare admission of the weakness of Chinese coronavirus vaccines, the country's top disease control official says their effectiveness is low and the government is considering mixing them to give them a boost.

Chinese vaccines "don't have very high protection rates," said the director of the China Centers for Disease Control, Gao Fu, at a conference Saturday in the southwestern city of Chengdu.

Beijing has distributed hundreds of millions of doses in other countries while also trying to promote doubt about the effectiveness of Western vaccines.

"It's now under formal consideration whether we should use different vaccines from different technical lines for the immunization process," Gao said.

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The effectiveness rate of a coronavirus vaccine from Sinovac, a Chinese developer, at preventing symptomatic infections has been found to be as low as 50.4% by researchers in Brazil. By comparison, the vaccine made by Pfizer has been found to be 97% effective.

Beijing has yet to approve any foreign vaccines for use in China, where the coronavirus emerged in late 2019.

Gao gave no details of possible changes in strategy but mentioned mRNA, a previously experimental technique used by Western vaccine developers while China's drug makers used traditional technology.

"Everyone should consider the benefits mRNA vaccines can bring for humanity," Gao said. "We must follow it carefully and not ignore it just because we already have several types of vaccines already."

Gao previously raised questions about the safety of mRNA vaccines. He was quoted by the official Xinhua News Agency as saying in December he couldn't rule out negative side effects because they were being used for the first time on healthy people.

Chinese state media and popular health and science blogs also have questioned the safety and effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine, which uses mRNA.

As of April 2, some 34 million people have received both of the two doses required by Chinese vaccines and about 65 million received one, according to Gao.

Experts say mixing vaccines, or sequential immunization, might boost effectiveness rates. Trials around the world are looking at mixing of vaccines or giving a booster shot after a longer time period. Researchers in Britain are studying a possible combination of Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines.

[alfred russel]

To point out once again the extreme stupidity of both sides:

Take a moment to digest the incredible stupidity in this poll. Over half of people who have already been vaccinated are somewhat or very worried about contracting covid-19. But over 70% of those that are refusing to ever get vaccinated are either not worried or not too worried.

What is really fascinating is that the percentage of people "very worried" about personally contracting the virus is almost identical between those who have received the vaccine and those that say they will get vaccinated. "I believe in science" apparently has its limits.

Let me just repost what I just posted in the behavior thread:

Being vaccinated is not a magical status that means you can't spread the virus anymore. Being vaccinated is supposed to help you fight off the virus if you catch it. You can still be contagious/catch a variant to which your immune system is less prepared/vaccine didn't work for you.

For example the J&J vaccine is 100% effective in terms of hospitalization and death prevention. It's only 65% effective in terms of preventing an actual Sars-Cov2 infection though.

In resumé: shut up Dorsey.

The poll question was "Taking into consideration both your risk of contracting it and the seriousness of the illness, how worried are you about personally experiencing COVID-19?"

Sorry, if you still have significant worry after being vaccinated you are stupid or a hypochondriac.

[The Larch]

It has been reported over here that we just had the first case of flu of the season in my region last week, when it'd normally be already over in past years.

[celedhring]

This is the first year since I have recollection of being a living person that I don't catch a cold/flu during winter.

[Tamas]

With Hungary still producing terrible numbers (Monday morning death statistics are usually the lowest coming out of slower weekend reporting and still they were 291 today) schools are being opened up, and Budapest is offering the UEFA 100% stadium attendance for the delayed Euro 2020 matches.

In a perfect symbol of all this the (effectively Fidesz-owned) major sport newspaper had this front page:



On the left they are mourning a 56 years old ex-olympic athlete who lost her life to Covid, while on the right celebrating that only Budapest has committed to full stadiums.

[celedhring]

 

Tbf, UEFA - bless their hearts - is pushing for public in the stands, even threatening those places that can't/won't guarantee it (the ones listed as "?" in that cover) with taking their games elsewhere.

[The Larch]

Tbf, UEFA - bless their hearts - is pushing for public in the stands, even threatening those places that can't/won't guarantee it (the ones listed as "?" in that cover) with taking their games elsewhere.

UEFA's hearts, always in the wrong place. 

[Josquius]

With Hungary still producing terrible numbers (Monday morning death statistics are usually the lowest coming out of slower weekend reporting and still they were 291 today) schools are being opened up, and Budapest is offering the UEFA 100% stadium attendance for the delayed Euro 2020 matches.

In a perfect symbol of all this the (effectively Fidesz-owned) major sport newspaper had this front page:



On the left they are mourning a 56 years old ex-olympic athlete who lost her life to Covid, while on the right celebrating that only Budapest has committed to full stadiums.

It's like allied with eurasia/at war with eurasia side by side

[Zanza]

Tbf, UEFA - bless their hearts - is pushing for public in the stands, even threatening those places that can't/won't guarantee it (the ones listed as "?" in that cover) with taking their games elsewhere.

Munich already told them to fuck off apparently.

[Duque de Bragança]

I had tickets for the Portugal games in Budapest and Munich long ago.

[Tamas]

The only remaining non-oligarch owned national TV in Hungary ran the story of a family told by a lady, she said they kept to the rules but early March decided they'd celebrate the grandmother's 86th birthday because they "didn't want to leave her alone". There were 10 of them  they "wore masks but of course for eating the cake they removed it".

Unknown to everyone else (and maybe to this one person as well) one of them was infected.

Grandma died of covid in her home, the lady and her parents all ended up in ICU, where the lady's father did not survive.