Coronavirus Sars-CoV-2/Covid-19 Megathread

[Grey Fox]

My theory is that since the first to get to market (Pfizer) didn't use it any R&D funding they see it has a failure.

[Tamas]

But what does putting money into vaccine research has to do with totally fumbling fighting the pandemic?

[Sheilbh]

My theory is that since the first to get to market (Pfizer) didn't use it any R&D funding they see it has a failure.

Maybe - he couldn't claim credit for the first and biggest splash. That is possble.

But what does putting money into vaccine research has to do with totally fumbling fighting the pandemic?

Nothing - but it might be the way out of the pandemic and that may be what people remember. It's too late for Trump, mind. Biden'll get the credit which will be really good because obviously it's saving lives in the US and also, probably, infuriating Trump

[Admiral Yi]

But what does putting money into vaccine research has to do with totally fumbling fighting the pandemic?

Vaccines help fight the pandemic?

[Tamas]

The way I read Sheilbh's comment was that the atrocious way Trump & co. handled the pandemic was part of a larger plan that focused on getting vaccines asap. Which is clearly wrong.

[Tamas]

My theory is that since the first to get to market (Pfizer) didn't use it any R&D funding they see it has a failure.

Maybe - he couldn't claim credit for the first and biggest splash. That is possble.

But what does putting money into vaccine research has to do with totally fumbling fighting the pandemic?

Nothing - but it might be the way out of the pandemic and that may be what people remember. It's too late for Trump, mind. Biden'll get the credit which will be really good because obviously it's saving lives in the US and also, probably, infuriating Trump

But "we need vaccines ASAP" was really such a unique insight? Also, do we know if Trump actually fought resistance within his government to push for financing research? If he didn't it's not his credit.

[Admiral Yi]

The way I read Sheilbh's comment was that the atrocious way Trump & co. handled the pandemic was part of a larger plan that focused on getting vaccines asap. Which is clearly wrong.

I think what he was saying is he funded it but didn't want to claim a bunch of credit for it because it went against his message that it's a hoax, we don't need to worry, yadda yadda.

Which still begs the question of how it managed to get funded.

[Tamas]

The way I read Sheilbh's comment was that the atrocious way Trump & co. handled the pandemic was part of a larger plan that focused on getting vaccines asap. Which is clearly wrong.

I think what he was saying is he funded it but didn't want to claim a bunch of credit for it because it went against his message that it's a hoax, we don't need to worry, yadda yadda.

Which still begs the question of how it managed to get funded.

I would say that probably some of his schmucks got kickbacks but I'd be labelled paranoid. 

[Admiral Yi]

That would be beating a dead horse. 

[Sheilbh]

The way I read Sheilbh's comment was that the atrocious way Trump & co. handled the pandemic was part of a larger plan that focused on getting vaccines asap. Which is clearly wrong.

No - not at all.

There was no larger plan. Trump failed hugely in handling the pandemic. The only amount of calculation I think goes on for Trump is how to enhance his brand/hurt his opponents. Everything else is just id.

I think it's the tech (find a cure, find a vaccine etc) v public health (cut transmission, get down to covid zero) solutions. Trump absolutely fucked the public health bit, but put money into the tech solution and it has paid off - for the world. Those are two separate facts. It doesn't mean he's a genius or that there was some super-smart plan by him - just an observation and maybe an irony.

The furthest I'd push it as a question is wondering about Macron's comments about Europe being "too rational" in not going big on vaccines in the way the US did. The experts all told them it would take two years to develop a vaccine. Perhaps the "technocratic" governments were better at the public health solution, but perhaps too fettered by expert opinion on vaccine development; while the "populist" governments utterly failed at public health, but were willing to splash huge amounts of money on a once-and-done solution. And at a push perhaps that says something about those styles of government/politics (and why we probably need a bit of both).

Which still begs the question of how it managed to get funded.

I think the initial funding came from one of the covid relief acts - apparently Trump sold it as "I asked for 2.5 and I got 8.3, and I'll take it" I think the Warp Speed stuff was all to do with the public-private bit and coordinating all the different agencies who got money from Congress plus more money from somewhere?

[Zanza]

My theory is that since the first to get to market (Pfizer) didn't use it any R&D funding they see it has a failure.

The R&D for that was done by Biontech and they certainly got money from state actors, not from the US perhaps.

[viper37]

it's an experiment, to see if concerts could be safely held.

What was the band? Medias report "rock concert", but not details.

It's not an experiment. There'll be no follow-up, no quarantine, no control group. No meaningful data will come out of it.

oh
everywhere I read about this, it was touted as an experiment.  I thought they would monitor people thereafter

[celedhring]

it's an experiment, to see if concerts could be safely held.

What was the band? Medias report "rock concert", but not details.

It's not an experiment. There'll be no follow-up, no quarantine, no control group. No meaningful data will come out of it.

oh
everywhere I read about this, it was touted as an experiment.  I thought they would monitor people thereafter

The only monitoring is a pledge from attendees to inform organizers if they later come down with Covid 

So in a few weeks they'll announce that the experiment was a resonant success.

[Tamas]

I am reading that the anti-lockdown protest in Pitesti Romania (admittedly around 500 people in total) deteriorated quickly from anti-lockdown slogans to gems like "all Hungarians out!" and "Arafat, remember this isn't your country".

[celedhring]

Anyway, the situation in Catalonia and Madrid is worsening quite rapidly. No further restrictions are intended 

Right now Catalonia is in the middle of coalition negotiations between proindy parties to form a government, which are being quite cutthroat (today the ERC candidate will fail the parlamentary vote to get appointed president), and I'm afraid it's taking focus away from how quickly the virus is rising again.

Madrid is also on the runup to an election, so their government will give less fucks than usual about implementing restrictions, too.