The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump

[Barrister]

Quick question - even if Trump is impeached, there's nothing preventing him from still running in 2020 right?

[Valmy]

Starting to read it now - first thing I notice is that Jimmy is right, it's not a transcript at all.  It's a memo prepared from notes of attendees.  Significant difference.

Yeah. Yesterday NPR had on one of these "note takers" from the Obama administration and they described the process by which there were two designated note takers who independently took notes and discussed later for a single draft, which was then reviewed by their higher up and eventually distributed to meeting attendees for their own review before being filed away.

Makes me think of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNKjShmHw7s

[Valmy]

Quick question - even if Trump is impeached, there's nothing preventing him from still running in 2020 right?

AFAIK Impeachment will accomplish little legally, presuming the Senate doesn't convict.

[Barrister]

Quick question - even if Trump is impeached, there's nothing preventing him from still running in 2020 right?

AFAIK Impeachment will accomplish little legally, presuming the Senate doesn't convict.

I used imprecise language: even if removed from office, there's nothing preventing him from running again in 2020 right?

[DGuller]

As an aside, this transcript is also kind of embarrassing for Zelensky - he comes across as trying very hard to toady up to Trump.  But I guess when you're in a low-level war with Russia and are desperate for friends, you do what you gotta do.

I imagine that even Putin would not look good in such a situation.  It was obvious since The Apprentice days that with Trump, you have to flatter him until you choke on his essence.  Forget subtlety or token disagreement to earn credibility, just go as hard as you can for as long as you can, and check your dignity at the door.

[merithyn]

As an aside, this transcript is also kind of embarrassing for Zelensky - he comes across as trying very hard to toady up to Trump.  But I guess when you're in a low-level war with Russia and are desperate for friends, you do what you gotta do.

Does no one else see how much like Trump Zelensky sounds? As in... so very, very, VERY much like Trump? As in... could have been written by Trump?

Without the tape of the conversation, there's no way I'm going to believe that this is actually what Zelensky said. The cadence, the verbiage... all of it screams Trump.

[Razgovory]

Quick question - even if Trump is impeached, there's nothing preventing him from still running in 2020 right?

Nobody knows.  That's never happened before.  If he is thrown out of office he can be prosecuted and that could stop him from running again.

[Valmy]

Quick question - even if Trump is impeached, there's nothing preventing him from still running in 2020 right?

AFAIK Impeachment will accomplish little legally, presuming the Senate doesn't convict.

I used imprecise language: even if removed from office, there's nothing preventing him from running again in 2020 right?

Oh right.

There is nothing in the Constitution that prevents him, no. But there might be something else.

[The Minsky Moment]

What a horror show.  Putting the Biden thing aside if this memo is reflective of Trump's typical interaction with foreign leaders, American diplomacy is in a very bad place.

Can you elaborate, please? Besides the "beautiful country you have here, it'd be a pity if something happened to it" tone, that is. 

Going in order:
1) He starts by insulting a close NATO ally that he has some personal problem with.
2) He then accuses the Ukraine of lack of reciprocity.  In the context of what follows, that is a "smoking gun" BTW.  The concept of a smoking gun is that there is no direct witness to the crime but we can infer what happened by seeing the body and a piece of evidence from which inferences can reasonably be drawn (a recently fired gun).  This memo is that.
3) He then rants about Mueller and some bizarre conspiracy theory about a shadowy Ukrainian national conspiring with the DNC to hide an email server.  Zelensky  doesn't appear to know what Trump is talking about.
4)  Trump then repeatedly refers to a notoriously corrupt prosecutor under the prior regime as a "really good prosecutor"
5) Trump then demands the Ukrainian government take instructions from his personal lawyer - a man who has no government position or authority - not even a WH advisory position
6) He then defames the last US ambassador to Ukraine.
7) He then makes the demand to get dirt on Biden.
8) After a statement by Zelesnky, he then says that Rudy will contact him about the Biden claims and the that the US Attorney General (!) will also be involved.
9) "I've got lots of friends who are ___" 

At no point in this call does Trump raise even a single matter of foreign policy concern for the United States even though he is talking to the leader of a large country that is currently Europe's most significant crisis zones.

Meanwhile Zelensky who has clearly been prepped makes a point of telling Trump that he stays at Trump-owned properties when visiting the US. 

[Malthus]

As an aside, this transcript is also kind of embarrassing for Zelensky - he comes across as trying very hard to toady up to Trump.  But I guess when you're in a low-level war with Russia and are desperate for friends, you do what you gotta do.

Does no one else see how much like Trump Zelensky sounds? As in... so very, very, VERY much like Trump? As in... could have been written by Trump?

Without the tape of the conversation, there's no way I'm going to believe that this is actually what Zelensky said. The cadence, the verbiage... all of it screams Trump.

Though it is possible it is accurate, and it reflects a deliberate strategy by Zelensky ... who was an actor before he became a politician. He may well be deliberately parroting what he knows Trump wants him to say, even down to how he says it. His nation badly needs US help.

[DGuller]

As an aside, this transcript is also kind of embarrassing for Zelensky - he comes across as trying very hard to toady up to Trump.  But I guess when you're in a low-level war with Russia and are desperate for friends, you do what you gotta do.

Does no one else see how much like Trump Zelensky sounds? As in... so very, very, VERY much like Trump? As in... could have been written by Trump?

Without the tape of the conversation, there's no way I'm going to believe that this is actually what Zelensky said. The cadence, the verbiage... all of it screams Trump.

I'm not seeing it.  He doesn't sound like Trump, and he does sound consistent with Zelenskiy (although there aren't a lot of examples of what Zelenskiy the person sounds like in private).  We also don't know whether translator was used; Zelenskiy does speak English, but he didn't sound completely fluent the last time I heard him.

[The Minsky Moment]

Of course the toadying is deliberate strategy.  Everyone knows that flattery of Donald gets you everywhere and straight talk puts you on the enemies list.  A temporary loss of dignity is a very cheap cost to pay.

[The Larch]

Apparently the White House sent an email with their talking points about the Ukraine situation to the House Democrats instead of to the Republicans, and afterwards asked them to recall it. 

[The Minsky Moment]

Zelensky: I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We. are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps. Specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

Trump: I would like you to do us a favor though . . .

Nothing to see here  . . .

[Admiral Yi]

The relevant conversation is the one Giuliani had in Spain.  That's why Donald was so willing to release this transcript.