The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump

[jimmy olsen]

Given the number of media misfires in the past few years, I'm not sure it's worth rushing to judgment until we see a bit more evidence of what exactly was said. Not to say that Trump didn't do what he's accused of, only that in the age of Twitter, the media has been known to get ahead of itself. 

I'm looking forward to tomorrow's released transcript.

Transcripts aren't made of the president's conversation with foreign leaders, so whatever is going to be released will be a non incriminating summary.

Also, the whistle blower complaint was over a pattern of behavior, not just one incident.

[Camerus]

Not sure where you're getting that about transcripts or what the fact that the phone call is part of an alleged larger complaint has to do with wanting to see evidence before making up one's mind.

Yes, a harmless transcript wouldn't exonerate the man - obviously we need to hear testimony from the whistleblower himself etc. Still, keeping a cautious approach to this is the best bet, especially in our current moment.

[jimmy olsen]

Not sure where you're getting that about transcripts or what the fact that the phone call is part of an alleged larger complaint has to do with wanting to see evidence before making up one's mind.

Yes, a harmless transcript wouldn't exonerate the man - obviously we need to hear testimony from the whistleblower himself etc. Still, keeping a cautious approach to this is the best bet, especially in our current moment.

Obama staffer said they didn't make transcripts of his conversations with foreign leaders, and it seems doubtful that Trump is keeping better records than Obama, when everything I've read about his administration points the other way.

[viper37]

Ah well. I am not really sure what to tell the Democrats at this point so while I am a bit fearful this will probably just open the door to something terrible in the future, if the President did something worthy of impeachment let's move forward. I mean that is what the Congress is Constitutionally supposed to do.

looking at it from the outside, I get vibes of Southerners cheering and partying on learning they're going to war.

[viper37]

The lesson Trump drew from the non-impeachment over Russia is that he is free to dragoon foreign governments into targeting political opponents at home.  If the Democrats passed this time he would not respond by showing greater restraint.

True.  But aren't they overplaying their hand if he really declassifies the conversation by tomorrow?
strike that.  just read Tim.  Never mind.

[FunkMonk]

Transcript is out now. Seems pretty bad for Donald but I'm not a smart guy so who knows.

He offered the services of the Attorney General to help the Ukrainian President investigate Biden. That seems really, really shitty.

[Malthus]

Link is here: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-ukraine-unredacted-call-transcript-read-ukraine-president-released-by-white-house-today-2019-09-25-live-updates/

[Razgovory]

Is there anything other than impeachment that can prevent Trump from doing this again? 

[The Minsky Moment]

Starting to read it now - first thing I notice is that Jimmy is right, it's not a transcript at all.  It's a memo prepared from notes of attendees.  Significant difference.

[FunkMonk]

Starting to read it now - first thing I notice is that Jimmy is right, it's not a transcript at all.  It's a memo prepared from notes of attendees.  Significant difference.

Yeah. Yesterday NPR had on one of these "note takers" from the Obama administration and they described the process by which there were two designated note takers who independently took notes and discussed later for a single draft, which was then reviewed by their higher up and eventually distributed to meeting attendees for their own review before being filed away.

[The Minsky Moment]

What a horror show.  Putting the Biden thing aside if this memo is reflective of Trump's typical interaction with foreign leaders, American diplomacy is in a very bad place.

[The Larch]

What a horror show.  Putting the Biden thing aside if this memo is reflective of Trump's typical interaction with foreign leaders, American diplomacy is in a very bad place.

Can you elaborate, please? Besides the "beautiful country you have here, it'd be a pity if something happened to it" tone, that is. 

[Camerus]

The sycophantic flattery that the Ukrainian president heaps on Trump is disturbing on many levels.

Overall I'd say the text is pretty damning for Trump BUT it lacks the verbal "smoking gun" that would be necessary to convince many Trumpeters given that Trump was indirect in his threat.

[Barrister]

As an aside, this transcript is also kind of embarrassing for Zelensky - he comes across as trying very hard to toady up to Trump.  But I guess when you're in a low-level war with Russia and are desperate for friends, you do what you gotta do.

[Razgovory]

There is no smoking gun that will cause Trump's supporters to abandon him.  Trump could be pointing a literal smoking gun at their own damned heads and they will follow him no matter what.  Suicide bombers aren't that fanatical.