NCAA Foootball 2017

[grumbler]

I think that it is clear that the Purdue offense told the refs they were taking a knee, because the ref told the defense that (and he wouldn't have known that's what they were doing in time to tell the defense unless he'd been told).  That's clearly an illegal use of the referee, not normal "trickery." 

[katmai]

The performance of PAC-12 so far doesn't bode well for Fiesta bowl tomorrow

[Berkut]

Its such a bizarre objection.

If you want to run a trick play out of the victory formation, go right ahead.

Just don't tell the official you are going to take a knee. There is no reason to tell them that, EXCEPT because you want them to tell the defense not to fire off. That is the only reason.

How anyone can argue that asking the officials to tell the defense to take the play off because you aren't going to run a actual play is part of football is rather beyond me.

This is a particular, and very special case. There is no slippery slope, or any other situation this applies to at all.

I would really like to know what actually happened. I think it is possible that the officials did NOT tell Arizona anything, and Arizona just assumed, and then claimed they were told. That is one explanation.

The other is that the officials did say something, but were caught off guard by the bullshit, shitty douchebag move and simply didn't respond fast enough, and then didn't feel like they could actually undo the play once it happened. That's the problem with too clever by far coaches taking advantage of a corner case like this, it isn't something people expect. They think this makes them clever, but what it really does is either force the NCAA to come up with yet more fucking rules to cover for the .01% of the time some douchebag wants to think he is smarter than everyone else, or just stop the courtesy of letting the players not kill each other on meaningless plays.

[alfred russel]

Is there actually any evidence that someone from Purdue told the official it would be a kneel down besides an obviously butt hurt Arizona fan?

Here is a write up of what happened and Arizona's objections that makes no mention of Purdue telling the officials anything.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ncaaf/ua/2017/12/28/purdue-trick-play-fake-kneel-down-arizona-wildcats/987216001/

Rich Rod's story seems to be:
1. Purdue lined up in the victory formation,
2. An official told Arizona defenders not to rush because Purdue was about to kneel down,
3. Purdue got a big gain on the play because Arizona was following the official instructions,
4. As an official error, there should have been no play.

Which brings up an important point: IT IS A 60 MINUTE GAME! OFFICIALS HAVE NO BUSINESS TELLING PLAYERS NOT TO PLAY HARD BEFORE A PLAY!

In a practical sense, there is no way the officials would do what Rich Rod wanted. I can't imagine an official nullifying a major play by saying, "we made a mistake before the play and told the arizona players not to play hard."

[alfred russel]

In other news from that game (and others), it turns out Purdue's QB is a bit of a bad ass. He played the last 3.5 games of the season with a torn ACL and just had surgery to fix it.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/21900760/purdue-boilermakers-elijah-sindelar-played-games-torn-acl

[Berkut]

Is there actually any evidence that someone from Purdue told the official it would be a kneel down besides an obviously butt hurt Arizona fan?

Here is a write up of what happened and Arizona's objections that makes no mention of Purdue telling the officials anything.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ncaaf/ua/2017/12/28/purdue-trick-play-fake-kneel-down-arizona-wildcats/987216001/

Rich Rod's story seems to be:
1. Purdue lined up in the victory formation,
2. An official told Arizona defenders not to rush because Purdue was about to kneel down,
3. Purdue got a big gain on the play because Arizona was following the official instructions,
4. As an official error, there should have been no play.

Which brings up an important point: IT IS A 60 MINUTE GAME! OFFICIALS HAVE NO BUSINESS TELLING PLAYERS NOT TO PLAY HARD BEFORE A PLAY!

In a practical sense, there is no way the officials would do what Rich Rod wanted. I can't imagine an official nullifying a major play by saying, "we made a mistake before the play and told the arizona players not to play hard."

How would the official know they were going to kneel other than someone from Purdue telling them?

They couldn't wait until they lined up to know that and tell Arizona - when they are lined up and in formation, the officials are as well, and there isn't any way to communicate at that point other than what? Yelling across the line at the Arizona players? That doesn't make sense, that isn't how this kind of thing works.

You know, I know you are just being your normal, trolling, asshole self...but I've done this before. I know how this works. I've actually officiated about a hundred college football games, most of them as a referee. I am not talking out of my ass. I've been involved in "taking a knee" plays probably a hundred times.

[Berkut]

If I had to bet money on what I think ACTUALLY happened is that nobody from Purdue told the officials anything, and the officials didn't tell the Arizona players anything.

The Arizona defense just assumed, and then used the excuse later that they were told to hold up. I find it incredibly unlikely the officials would tell them that unless Purdue told them they would take a knee.

Assuming that Purdue didn't say anything, and the officials didn't say anything, then it was officiated exactly right.

It's still a stupid, cheap, bush league play, but that is just opinion. If Purdue wants to put their players at risk in order to get an occasional big trick play off, that is their call.

[grumbler]

The players have to know that the refs will eventually say whether or not they told the defense to hold off, so lying doesn't seem like a very wise choice.    OTOH, it is hard to believe that the refs would permit themselves to be sued as dupes for the fake, so that seems unlikely as well.

In any event, it was a classless move that only endangers Brohm's players.  He himself is physically safe.  That's why he is willing to pull shit like this.  Purdue (and its players) are expendable pawns in his plan to coach a big-time program.  What will really be shitty is when some Purdue O-lineman gets a knee blown out on a kneel down a year after Brohm abandons the team for LSU.

[alfred russel]

How would the official know they were going to kneel other than someone from Purdue telling them?

They couldn't wait until they lined up to know that and tell Arizona - when they are lined up and in formation, the officials are as well, and there isn't any way to communicate at that point other than what? Yelling across the line at the Arizona players? That doesn't make sense, that isn't how this kind of thing works.

It is impossible for the umpire or other official to see the formation and yell, "no rush"? You really believe that no official ever says anything pre snap when the teams are at the line?

You know, I know you are just being your normal, trolling, asshole self...but I've done this before. I know how this works. I've actually officiated about a hundred college football games, most of them as a referee. I am not talking out of my ass. I've been involved in "taking a knee" plays probably a hundred times.

When you make it to the FBS level, let me know.

[alfred russel]

It's still a stupid, cheap, bush league play, but that is just opinion. If Purdue wants to put their players at risk in order to get an occasional big trick play off, that is their call.

Suppose they lined up and ran a normal play....their guys would still be at risk...it is the nature of football that players are at risk. Purdue won the game, and the play in question appears to be a major contributor to that. If football is worth it, then that play was worth it.

Hell, the game may have gone to overtime without that play...all those extra plays may have been avoided through this one. Who knows how many injuries would have happened in overtime.

[grumbler]

It is impossible for the umpire or other official to see the formation and yell, "no rush"? You really believe that no official ever says anything pre snap when the teams are at the line?

What?  When have you ever heard a referee or any other official (though it would have to be the referee, I think) yell "no rush" when two teams are lined up?  Or anything else, for that matter?  I think you are making this up as you go along.

When you make it to the FBS level, let me know.

When you qualify to referee football at any level, let us know.  Until then, this all seems anally extracted.

[grumbler]

Suppose they lined up and ran a normal play....their guys would still be at risk...it is the nature of football that players are at risk. Purdue won the game, and the play in question appears to be a major contributor to that. If football is worth it, then that play was worth it.

The play was designed to take advantage of the other team not engaging in an all-out rush because the Purdue team was simulating a kneel.  That's the norm in college football.  The other teams will not allow Purdue to engage in a kneel down in the future, because they know Purdue is classless enough to subvert the convention in order to gain some yards.  Fuck, they even played a quarterback with a torn ACL (which no reputable program would do). 

Hell, the game may have gone to overtime without that play...all those extra plays may have been avoided through this one. Who knows how many injuries would have happened in overtime.

That's an argument against playing football, not against subverting a convention designed to avoid unnecessary injuries.

[dps]

Hell, the game may have gone to overtime without that play...all those extra plays may have been avoided through this one. Who knows how many injuries would have happened in overtime.

That's an argument against playing football, not against subverting a convention designed to avoid unnecessary injuries.

Personally, I'd do away with OT in non-playoff games at both the college and pro levels.  I'm fine with a game ending in a tie if neither team can win after 60 minutes.

[Berkut]

How would the official know they were going to kneel other than someone from Purdue telling them?

They couldn't wait until they lined up to know that and tell Arizona - when they are lined up and in formation, the officials are as well, and there isn't any way to communicate at that point other than what? Yelling across the line at the Arizona players? That doesn't make sense, that isn't how this kind of thing works.

It is impossible for the umpire or other official to see the formation and yell, "no rush"?

Impossible? Is that the standard you apply to believe that something happens?

No, it is not impossible. But they would never, ever, ever do that. Because...why would they do that?

The officials do not ever yell things when the ball is ready to be snapped. That is not the time to be communicating in any way other than blowing your whistle to kill the play.

This is just...stupid. Have you ever seen an official scream something out right before the snap? Do I have to actually explain why they would not do that?

You really believe that no official ever says anything pre snap when the teams are at the line?

Not to the teams, no. They do not.

We have some ways to communicate with each other pre-snap, but it is all signals, since having non-players yelling things pre-snap would be rather bad.

You know, I know you are just being your normal, trolling, asshole self...but I've done this before. I know how this works. I've actually officiated about a hundred college football games, most of them as a referee. I am not talking out of my ass. I've been involved in "taking a knee" plays probably a hundred times.

When you make it to the FBS level, let me know.

Why? It is clear you know nothing about how football is officiated, and don't care to learn.

[Savonarola]

My wife (MSU undergrad, as you all know) and sister-in-law (Purdue undergrad, MSU grad) were deciding who to root for in today's Michigan-South Carolina game.  Their solution:  they hope Michigan wins and Harbaugh gets ejected.

Best of luck, Wolverines.  If they do win that would be a Big Ten sweep; something we don't usually see.