Tour de Armstrong - Or how they still think it'll be a clean tour.

Started by Liep, July 04, 2009, 10:18:59 AM

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Razgovory

#105
May 26, 2011, 02:38:14 AM
Are there really examples of people who admit to doping before they race or during?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Bluebook

#106
May 26, 2011, 04:16:34 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 25, 2011, 04:41:25 PM

The reality is that he gets a lot of crap because he is

1. Really fucking good, and
2. American.

I might have the order mixed up though.

And this is true whether he is doped or not.

Not really no. If someone use illegal performance enhancing drugs, they are cheating. If they are cheating, they cannot ever be considered "really fucking good", regardless of their nationality. A cheat is a cheat.

Liep

#107
May 26, 2011, 05:07:49 AM
Problem is, they were all using doping, so he was still pretty fucking good compared to the rest of the cheaters.
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Bluebook

#108
May 26, 2011, 05:19:04 AM
Quote from: Liep on May 26, 2011, 05:07:49 AM
Problem is, they were all using doping, so he was still pretty fucking good compared to the rest of the cheaters.

He managed to score better drugs than the others, so he is better than them? Is this how people rank athetes these days?

And no, I dont thing everyone in that sport is on drugs.

jimmy olsen

#109
May 26, 2011, 05:54:16 AM
Quote from: Bluebook on May 26, 2011, 05:19:04 AM
And no, I dont thing everyone in that sport is on drugs.
:yeahright:
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Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
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Berkut

#110
May 26, 2011, 07:44:39 AM
Quote from: Bluebook on May 26, 2011, 05:19:04 AM
Quote from: Liep on May 26, 2011, 05:07:49 AM
Problem is, they were all using doping, so he was still pretty fucking good compared to the rest of the cheaters.

He managed to score better drugs than the others, so he is better than them? Is this how people rank athetes these days?

And no, I dont thing everyone in that sport is on drugs.

But why have you decided to single out Armstrong as being on them rather than others?

It seems to me like the entire sport is so riddled with drugs that it is hard to care about the sport in general. But getting all bent out of shape over one particular rider, and then claiming that it is just complete coincidence that said rider happens to be the dominant athlete in the sport, and really, you are mad at him not because he is using drugs (for which there isn't anymore conclusive evidence that there is for anyone else, btw), but because he *says* he is NOT using drugs...yeah, that doesn't pass the smell test. In fact, it makes no fucking sense at all.
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Berkut

#111
May 26, 2011, 07:49:37 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 25, 2011, 11:49:55 PM
Quote from: Berkut on May 25, 2011, 11:44:36 PMThat is such an obviously false reason to bag on the guy that it seems pretty obvious;y something else. NOT THAT THERE IS ANY ANTI-AMERICANISM IN EUROPE OF COURSE! Gosh no.

I am sure you detected it through your careful reading of the French press.

You don't have to read the French press to figure out that claims that Armstrong is hated because he doesn't admit to using drugs sound like bullshit. They sound like bullshit even when you guys say it right here on languish in english. Nor does one have to read the French press to notice that there is plenty of anti-Americanism in Europe in general.

Since it is clear that the claimed reason to hate him is completely bullshit, then I am sticking with his not being liked because he is really fucking good and an American. At least for those who get all frothing over him - obviously if you do like Armstrong, or rather don't really care one way about him or the other, then it doesn't apply to you.

But it does leave the question about why he is so hated by so many, when other than his dominance combined with his nationality, he is not exceptional.
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Grey Fox

#112
May 26, 2011, 07:50:43 AM
Berkut, while I agree with most of your arguments. The French don't hate Armstrong because he's a Yank. They hate him because he's not French.
Colonel Caliga is Awesome.

Razgovory

#113
May 26, 2011, 07:54:49 AM
They hate him because he wins, something that is anathema to the French.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Berkut

#114
May 26, 2011, 07:57:46 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 26, 2011, 07:50:43 AM
Berkut, while I agree with most of your arguments. The French don't hate Armstrong because he's a Yank. They hate him because he's not French.

I could see that - he is the "other", and it is always pleasing to despise the other, if you cannot love him.

Personally, Lance Armstrong could drive his bike of a cliff tomorrow and I wouldn't care - cycling seems like such a fake sport with all the drugs anyway. Even if Armstrong is as lily clean as Oex and Zoup hate him for, the sport in general is so dominated by the allegations that I cannot possibly care about it.

The most interesting thing about professional cycling is watching people get all worked up over Armstrong, actually. Hundreds of professional cyclers out there, and he gets 90% of the press. Must really piss off the other cyclers. Doesn't anyone want to know how their enhancement programs are coming along too?

But if it wasn't for Languish, I honestly would never think about professional cycling more than about 15 minutes a year.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Zoupa

#115
May 26, 2011, 04:32:19 PM
Hate is a pretty strong word dude. I wouldn't really care if he drove off a cliff tomorrow either.

I'm just gonna get a chuckle when they take his titles away. Because he was so dominant, because he's american? Not really, although he played that card alright. Mostly, folks will have a  :nelson: moment because dude is an asshole.

Neil

#116
May 26, 2011, 04:36:09 PM
They take your titles away for doping?  How can they justify that in a sport where everyone is doped to the gills?
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Valmy

#117
May 26, 2011, 04:53:34 PM
Quote from: Neil on May 26, 2011, 04:36:09 PM
They take your titles away for doping?  How can they justify that in a sport where everyone is doped to the gills?

They took Floyd Landis' away.
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Valmy

#118
May 26, 2011, 04:55:43 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 26, 2011, 07:54:49 AM
They hate him because he wins, something that is anathema to the French.

Especially in the Tour de France recently.  Don't fuck with Greg LeMond people he will curse your whole country.
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Neil

#119
May 26, 2011, 06:50:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 26, 2011, 04:53:34 PM
Quote from: Neil on May 26, 2011, 04:36:09 PM
They take your titles away for doping?  How can they justify that in a sport where everyone is doped to the gills?

They took Floyd Landis' away.
I don't know who that is.  Still, if they wanted to really enforce that sort of thing, they'd end up giving the title to someone who came in 145th, because everyone ahead of him was roided as much as they could afford.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.
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