What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Tamas]

Pentagon leaders installed as part of Trump purge last month blocked DC National Guard from getting riot gear and ammunition as protesters descended on Capitol.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-protests-washington-guard-military/2021/01/07/c5299b56-510e-11eb-b2e8-3339e73d9da2_story.html

WAD

So I guess the question is did they do this out of general loyalty, or in fact Trump was planning on a coup attempt and it is just our luck that only white trash neckbeards answered his call?

[Oexmelin]

These aren't the questions needed in a TIME TO HEAL.

[The Brain]

Pentagon leaders installed as part of Trump purge last month blocked DC National Guard from getting riot gear and ammunition as protesters descended on Capitol.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-protests-washington-guard-military/2021/01/07/c5299b56-510e-11eb-b2e8-3339e73d9da2_story.html

WAD

So I guess the question is did they do this out of general loyalty, or in fact Trump was planning on a coup attempt and it is just our luck that only white trash neckbeards answered his call?

It was a coup. Capitol security being very light and only offering token resistance, the National Guard ordered not to intervene, security forces just letting intruders walk out of there without arresting or even searching and IDing them...

I think it's important to purge tthe various security forces and the armed forces before inauguration.

[The Minsky Moment]

Sidney Powell has spent the past few months creating a defense for herself in this lawsuit: insanity.

Not a defense to a civil claim

[Syt]

My greatest worry is that there will be no consequences, legally or  at the ballot, for many of the Trump enablers. McConnell and Graham - sure, they are complicit, but they're cynical political operators, they're going with the flow of whatever helps them in the moment. I think for the future the real danger are people like Hawley: young, ideologically driven, who have drunk the kool-aid.

[crazy canuck]

The problem with viciously charging and imprisoning the bad guys after the election is that the bad guys can do the same when they inevitably win next time. Trump has shown how easy the system can be manipulated and if a competent leader wins that manipulation can be done with a plan.

Even though it feels wrong I think the best way is to take a leaf from Deng's and Mandelas textbook. Don't go after your enemies after victory, and make damn sure that all shenanigans are publicly exposed through some truth commission. Neutralize them by their own deeds and not by locking them up.

Then something needs to be done about the media and social media to stop this insanity. I have no clue as to what can be done, it's very difficult to destroy these self re-inforcing echo chambers. If nothing is done it's just a matter of time before an equally insane leftist Qanon and then... Well.. Fuck...

The problem with enforcing laws is that a tyrant might abuse the power of the state in the future, is not a very compelling argument.

[The Minsky Moment]

Pentagon leaders installed as part of Trump purge last month blocked DC National Guard from getting riot gear and ammunition as protesters descended on Capitol.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-protests-washington-guard-military/2021/01/07/c5299b56-510e-11eb-b2e8-3339e73d9da2_story.html

WAD

So I guess the question is did they do this out of general loyalty, or in fact Trump was planning on a coup attempt and it is just our luck that only white trash neckbeards answered his call?

Yes.

[Barrister]

My greatest worry is that there will be no consequences, legally or  at the ballot, for many of the Trump enablers. McConnell and Graham - sure, they are complicit, but they're cynical political operators, they're going with the flow of whatever helps them in the moment. I think for the future the real danger are people like Hawley: young, ideologically driven, who have drunk the kool-aid.

Hawley is just as cynical.  He may have believed he could form a kind of fusionist "Trumpism-without-Trump" but there's no sign he believed in it ideologically - just that it was a pathway to the Presidency.

[The Minsky Moment]

He's the political equivalent of a kid playing with matches and homebrew fireworks, and this week it went boom

[alfred russel]

It was a coup. Capitol security being very light and only offering token resistance, the National Guard ordered not to intervene, security forces just letting intruders walk out of there without arresting or even searching and IDing them...

I think it's important to purge tthe various security forces and the armed forces before inauguration.

While it may look that way, the capitol security forces were not under executive control: they are under congressional control (so that congress isn't reliant on the executive branch for its security).

I think there is a question whether National Guard was actually needed. A few thousand of the most ridiculous losers in the country--who were apparently mostly unarmed--apparently walked into the capitol building without a shot fired to stop them. The officer who was killed apparently was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher that was in the building.

I have no doubt that if a coup was presented to Trump as a fait accompli he would gladly take it. I also doubt he would ever do something that was extremely personally risky and required lots of hard work. I bet what happened is his idiot followers were outside the capitol and after some pushing against security realized they were not pushing back, and so just walked in.

[crazy canuck]

My greatest worry is that there will be no consequences, legally or  at the ballot, for many of the Trump enablers. McConnell and Graham - sure, they are complicit, but they're cynical political operators, they're going with the flow of whatever helps them in the moment. I think for the future the real danger are people like Hawley: young, ideologically driven, who have drunk the kool-aid.

Hawley is just as cynical.  He may have believed he could form a kind of fusionist "Trumpism-without-Trump" but there's no sign he believed in it ideologically - just that it was a pathway to the Presidency.

No sign that a right wing idiot didn't believe in idiotic right wing ideology.  What are you smoking?

[Sheilbh]

Pentagon leaders installed as part of Trump purge last month blocked DC National Guard from getting riot gear and ammunition as protesters descended on Capitol.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-protests-washington-guard-military/2021/01/07/c5299b56-510e-11eb-b2e8-3339e73d9da2_story.html

WAD

So I guess the question is did they do this out of general loyalty, or in fact Trump was planning on a coup attempt and it is just our luck that only white trash neckbeards answered his call?

Given that he tried to phone Georgia officials 18 times, and on the recorded call was just saying how many votes he needed to find I think it's fairly likely that he was talking people about these sort of options and that's why some people resigned - and why the people in office are in place now. It didn't work, but it wasn't for want of trying.

My greatest worry is that there will be no consequences, legally or  at the ballot, for many of the Trump enablers. McConnell and Graham - sure, they are complicit, but they're cynical political operators, they're going with the flow of whatever helps them in the moment. I think for the future the real danger are people like Hawley: young, ideologically driven, who have drunk the kool-aid.

Yeah I think Hawley is the slick, canny demagogue we've all been saying would be watching how vulnerable certain institutions are. I don't think Cotton has the charisma and, until this week, Hawley has more successfully fooled at least a few people on the left that I follow with his economic populism (which may be a more productive route than Cotton's national security/borders populism).

[The Brain]

It was a coup. Capitol security being very light and only offering token resistance, the National Guard ordered not to intervene, security forces just letting intruders walk out of there without arresting or even searching and IDing them...

I think it's important to purge tthe various security forces and the armed forces before inauguration.

While it may look that way, the capitol security forces were not under executive control: they are under congressional control (so that congress isn't reliant on the executive branch for its security).

I think there is a question whether National Guard was actually needed. A few thousand of the most ridiculous losers in the country--who were apparently mostly unarmed--apparently walked into the capitol building without a shot fired to stop them. The officer who was killed apparently was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher that was in the building.

I have no doubt that if a coup was presented to Trump as a fait accompli he would gladly take it. I also doubt he would ever do something that was extremely personally risky and required lots of hard work. I bet what happened is his idiot followers were outside the capitol and after some pushing against security realized they were not pushing back, and so just walked in.

Your faith in the integrity of the leaders of Capitol security is touching, but reality simply doesn't support that view.

[Barrister]

It was a coup. Capitol security being very light and only offering token resistance, the National Guard ordered not to intervene, security forces just letting intruders walk out of there without arresting or even searching and IDing them...

I think it's important to purge tthe various security forces and the armed forces before inauguration.

While it may look that way, the capitol security forces were not under executive control: they are under congressional control (so that congress isn't reliant on the executive branch for its security).

I think there is a question whether National Guard was actually needed. A few thousand of the most ridiculous losers in the country--who were apparently mostly unarmed--apparently walked into the capitol building without a shot fired to stop them. The officer who was killed apparently was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher that was in the building.

I have no doubt that if a coup was presented to Trump as a fait accompli he would gladly take it. I also doubt he would ever do something that was extremely personally risky and required lots of hard work. I bet what happened is his idiot followers were outside the capitol and after some pushing against security realized they were not pushing back, and so just walked in.

I haven't waded into this so far, but...

The Capitol Police - first of all not under executive control.  I've seen complaints about them 'taking it easy' on protestors, taking selfies with them, and this may well be true.  But there's also plenty of videos of them struggling mightily with protestors trying to hold the line and prevent them from entering the Capitol.

National Guard - you might recall just a few days ago there was a letter signed by every living Secretary of Defence talking about how the military has no place in deciding elections.  Even without Trump's influence there was probably a strong desire by the military to not get involved to any degree.  Now I don't think riot duty would count as 'interference', but that's the mind-set you'd be dealing with.

After Jan 20 there should definitely be a post-mortem on what happened, but I don't think it's so easy as just saying "it was a COUP!".

[alfred russel]

Your faith in the integrity of the leaders of Capitol security is touching, but reality simply doesn't support that view.

The leaders of capitol security are Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell.