What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Barrister]

The thing about that recorded call in Georgia: Trump never gave anything other than the impression that he believed the election was stolen from him. His message was, "there were 300,000 fraudulent votes against me--I need you to find just 12k so my win is acknowledged". Maybe he believes his own delusions and maybe he is just trying to keep plausible deniability. But either way, that is a long way from masterminding an overt violent coup.

Agreed. My view is I think Trump does believe in his own delusions (even though he might know they're not true) in the same way as he belives the bullshit he chats about his properties or his performance in reality TV or his sexual prowess on page 6. I don't think he really sees a difference between reality and the reality he projects. So in my view he absolutely believes he won the election and it was stolen from him, because he is not a loser. The only way he could lose is because he's been cheated etc. I also think that his view of what being President is, is basically that he is Mayor of the country based on his understanding of NY in the 70s and 80s.

And I think that chat is probably the sort he would have had with people in the DoD. It'll be "this thing's been stolen from me - can I rely on you" etc. I suspect that's a conversation he's had with lots of people - Senators, Governors, Generals - that will have made them all very uncomfortable.

It's really difficult to discern what Trump believes is true because he is apparently a long time believer in the book "The Power of Positive Thinking".  That is, he believes that if he believes something to be true, he can make it true.

[alfred russel]

It's really difficult to discern what Trump believes is true because he is apparently a long time believer in the book "The Power of Positive Thinking".  That is, he believes that if he believes something to be true, he can make it true.

Or, he lies so constantly it is really hard to determine what he really believes.

[Sheilbh]

It's really difficult to discern what Trump believes is true because he is apparently a long time believer in the book "The Power of Positive Thinking".  That is, he believes that if he believes something to be true, he can make it true.

Yeah that makes sense. And I think it matches my view, which I'd come at from a different angle: he has lived his life in real estate, tabloids and reality TV which are probably the three most "unreal" worlds you can occupy. It's exactly what you say what you believe or what you project is the truth. I don't think he has a fixed set of beliefs - or even a fixed reality. It is what he wants to project at any moment, but I think he probably believes in it when he's saying it even if he knows it's not true.

Personally I suspect that in the quiet of the residence or his bedroom in Mar-a-Lago he knows he lost. He knows he failed, he knows that despite winning the Presidency as an absolute neophyte that people still don't take him seriously/think he's a joke. Just like he know when he's gone bankrupt or failed in business. But it's not reality if you don't accept it publicly. So he won re-election, he's the greatest first-term President ever etc.

[Barrister]

It's really difficult to discern what Trump believes is true because he is apparently a long time believer in the book "The Power of Positive Thinking".  That is, he believes that if he believes something to be true, he can make it true.

Or, he lies so constantly it is really hard to determine what he really believes.

The two fit and-in-glove.

If you constantly project what you want to be the truth, then yes of course you are going to lie constantly.

[Barrister]

My office looks directly over the HQ for the Edmonton police.  You see a few sights.

Today it's some kind of memorial - flags are at half mast, pipes were played, about a dozen cops lined up in silent salute.

Only thing I can think of is for the DC Capitol officer who died.

[Jacob]

If you know any of these people feel free to reach out to the contact number: https://mpdc.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/mpdc/publication/attachments/POIs%20of%20Interest_1.7.21.pdf

[Razgovory]

My greatest worry is that there will be no consequences, legally or  at the ballot, for many of the Trump enablers. McConnell and Graham - sure, they are complicit, but they're cynical political operators, they're going with the flow of whatever helps them in the moment. I think for the future the real danger are people like Hawley: young, ideologically driven, who have drunk the kool-aid.

Hawley is just as cynical.  He may have believed he could form a kind of fusionist "Trumpism-without-Trump" but there's no sign he believed in it ideologically - just that it was a pathway to the Presidency.

John Danforth served as Hawley's mentor and now he's washing his hands of him.  Danforth is probably the most respected statesman in Missouri (at least I really respect him), so this is a pretty big thing.

[Valmy]

"Biden's presidency brought chaos"

Dude is not even President yet.

[HVC]

"Biden's presidency brought chaos"

Dude is not even President yet.

That's how chaotic his presidency is. issues before he even started.

[Jacob]

In another, it is better: as a coup attempt, it was beyond lame. Trump has, through his previous actions, shot himself in the foot - my guess is that the loss of seats in Georgia are directly attributable to him going on attacking elections. There was never any chance that a bunch of Trumpites attacking the capitol building would actually result in Trump retaining power.

As I understand it there were several important contributing factors:

1. Trump attacking the elections.

2. Stacey Abrams get-out-the vote organization (BTW, Georgia is apparently "clamping down" on absentee ballots in response).

3. Excellent campaigning by Warnock and Ossof.

4. Mitch blocking the most recent stimulus (the $2000 that even Trump endorsed).[/li][/list]

[crazy canuck]

Assuming this is truly the end of Trump's actions as president (a big assumption I know), the question in my mind is: is this damage more or less severe than you expected from him?

I'm kinda undecided.

In a way, it is worse: I never actually expected him to attempt to rile his followers into actually attacking the government, something that has dismayed America's friends, and gladdened its enemies, all over the world.

In another, it is better: as a coup attempt, it was beyond lame. Trump has, through his previous actions, shot himself in the foot - my guess is that the loss of seats in Georgia are directly attributable to him going on attacking elections. There was never any chance that a bunch of Trumpites attacking the capitol building would actually result in Trump retaining power.

My fear, and that expressed by many others, isn't that Trump himself would succeed, but that he would do sufficient damage the institutions of Liberal Democracy within the US that the next attempt might succeed.  Too early to tell.   

[Sheilbh]

My fear, and that expressed by many others, isn't that Trump himself would succeed, but that he would do sufficient damage the institutions of Liberal Democracy within the US that the next attempt might succeed.  Too early to tell.   

He's done a fair amount of damage to the Republican Party - over half of the House members and 10% of Senators (20% once you get Senators elect) to try and overturn democratic election results. And the Republican Party either runs, or has blocking powers, or has influence on lots of other institutions.

Edit: And, incidentally, on the "how far did this go" - I said at the time I don't think all former Defence Secretaries do a joint article about the military staying out of democratic politics randomly. I think they'd heard something or been told something or were aware of something, which is why they did that piece. I don't think it was accidental (and I can't believe it was only one week ago ).

[crazy canuck]

My fear, and that expressed by many others, isn't that Trump himself would succeed, but that he would do sufficient damage the institutions of Liberal Democracy within the US that the next attempt might succeed.  Too early to tell.   

He's done a fair amount of damage to the Republican Party - over half of the House members and 10% of Senators (20% once you get Senators elect) to try and overturn democratic election results. And the Republican Party either runs, or has blocking powers, or has influence on lots of other institutions.

Yes, the completion of the destruction of the Republican Party is one more step along the path.  That may have been inevitable without Trump but he certainly accelerated the process.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Assuming this is truly the end of Trump's actions as president (a big assumption I know), the question in my mind is: is this damage more or less severe than you expected from him?

I'm kinda undecided.

In a way, it is worse: I never actually expected him to attempt to rile his followers into actually attacking the government, something that has dismayed America's friends, and gladdened its enemies, all over the world.

In another, it is better: as a coup attempt, it was beyond lame. Trump has, through his previous actions, shot himself in the foot - my guess is that the loss of seats in Georgia are directly attributable to him going on attacking elections. There was never any chance that a bunch of Trumpites attacking the capitol building would actually result in Trump retaining power.

globally the fallout has the potential to be massive. And none of it to western advantage. The EU is a mouse playing at being a giant and the US lost a massive amount of credibility. Currently the tide is very much against democracy.

pfft, major war within the decade?

[Barrister]

In another, it is better: as a coup attempt, it was beyond lame. Trump has, through his previous actions, shot himself in the foot - my guess is that the loss of seats in Georgia are directly attributable to him going on attacking elections. There was never any chance that a bunch of Trumpites attacking the capitol building would actually result in Trump retaining power.

As I understand it there were several important contributing factors:

1. Trump attacking the elections.

2. Stacey Abrams get-out-the vote organization (BTW, Georgia is apparently "clamping down" on absentee ballots in response).

3. Excellent campaigning by Warnock and Ossof.

4. Mitch blocking the most recent stimulus (the $2000 that even Trump endorsed).[/li][/list]

I heard that Warnock and Ossof were relatively weak candidates.