What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Barrister]

How about forgetting all these walls/tunnels/bridges, and just have a single secular state with free movement and full citizenship/democratic rights?

Too crazy?

Yes.  These are not too sides that seem capable of living together.

As well it would destroy the idea of Israel being the national home for the Jewish people.

[Zoupa]

How about forgetting all these walls/tunnels/bridges, and just have a single secular state with free movement and full citizenship/democratic rights?

Too crazy?

x1000

[Valmy]

Well their position has always been diminishing. I don't doubt the strategic wisdom for the Palestinians taking the best deal they can get at any particular moment it is just I doubt they can take the deal politically...whatever it is.

But demographics have always been the looming fact, and those trends haven't changed.  There's still the very real likelihood that Jews become the minority in the whole of Israel and the West Bank.

I mean...I suppose. The percentage of Jews vs others is very slowly going down. I mean the Jews themselves have a ridiculous birth rate themselves. But I think the possibility of them actually becoming a minority became very small (well unless we see a point where there are like 50 million people or something living in Israel) once the State of Palestine became a thing...if even only on paper.

[Valmy]

How about forgetting all these walls/tunnels/bridges, and just have a single secular state with free movement and full citizenship/democratic rights?

Too crazy?

Oh it is a total joke. No question.

[The Brain]

How about forgetting all these walls/tunnels/bridges, and just have a single secular state with free movement and full citizenship/democratic rights?

Too crazy?

The US and Mexico can go first and demonstrate the awesomeness.

[Barrister]

I mean...I suppose. The percentage of Jews vs others is very slowly going down. I mean the Jews themselves have a ridiculous birth rate themselves. But I think the possibility of them actually becoming a minority became very small (well unless we see a point where there are like 50 million people or something living in Israel) once the State of Palestine became a thing...if even only on paper.

You're just looking at Israel proper.  It has a population of 9 million, with 20% of them being arabs (so 1.8 million) and 75% being jewish (so 6.75 million).

But then there are the palestinian territories.  They have a population of 4.5 million arabs, and 500,000 jews.

So the totals are 6.3 million to 7.25 million

[Valmy]

I know, I guess I just figured the possibility of a one state solution ever occuring was pretty much zero at this point. But I guess it depends on how many new non-jews get added once all this territory is included.

Again it is kind of interesting this is happening considering the crazy rate, by western standards anyway, the Israeli Jewish population reproduce.

[Barrister]

I know, I guess I just figured the possibility of a one state solution ever occuring was pretty much zero at this point. But I guess it depends on how many new non-jews get added once all this territory is included.

Again it is kind of interesting this is happening considering the crazy rate, by western standards anyway, the Israeli Jewish population reproduce.

Oh - and don't forget several million palestinian refugees who don't live in the occupied territories.

[Grey Fox]

This is a pretty sensible plan.

[The Minsky Moment]

So I think Kushner is an idiot but I will say one aspect of his view is probably actually correct: he went into this believing the Palestinians have a diminishing position that only gets worse over time, so they should be inclined to take as best as they can get now, because in the future they likely get worse.

Under that logic, there would have been about a dozen successful peace deals by now.  Historically, the Palestinians have not accepted that logic and I doubt they will do so now. 

I'm not arrogant enough to think I have a fix for the Palestinian problem, but the reality is we know from other occupations/territorial "holdings" from history, is the longer Israel exercises de facto control over this stuff the more likely it is the Palestinians never get to do so.

That is definitely true, but unfortunately it's a disaster for Israel.

[The Minsky Moment]

I mean...I suppose. The percentage of Jews vs others is very slowly going down. I mean the Jews themselves have a ridiculous birth rate themselves. But I think the possibility of them actually becoming a minority became very small (well unless we see a point where there are like 50 million people or something living in Israel) once the State of Palestine became a thing...if even only on paper.

You're just looking at Israel proper.  It has a population of 9 million, with 20% of them being arabs (so 1.8 million) and 75% being jewish (so 6.75 million).

But then there are the palestinian territories.  They have a population of 4.5 million arabs, and 500,000 jews.

So the totals are 6.3 million to 7.25 million

That's the math.  Israel have any 2 of: Jewish, democratic, and exercising sovereignty over the West Bank.  But it can't have all 3.

[Admiral Yi]

They could issue two classes of shares.

[dps]

I mean...I suppose. The percentage of Jews vs others is very slowly going down. I mean the Jews themselves have a ridiculous birth rate themselves. But I think the possibility of them actually becoming a minority became very small (well unless we see a point where there are like 50 million people or something living in Israel) once the State of Palestine became a thing...if even only on paper.

You're just looking at Israel proper.  It has a population of 9 million, with 20% of them being arabs (so 1.8 million) and 75% being jewish (so 6.75 million).

But then there are the palestinian territories.  They have a population of 4.5 million arabs, and 500,000 jews.

So the totals are 6.3 million to 7.25 million

That's the math.  Israel have any 2 of: Jewish, democratic, and exercising sovereignty over the West Bank.  But it can't have all 3.

Evidence suggests that if push comes to shove, they'll choose 1 and 3.

[The Minsky Moment]

They could issue two classes of shares.

There already are 3 classes.
Israeli Jews have Class A - full voting and distribution rights
Israeli Arabs have Class B - same rights as Class A but for reasons not fully understood, the proxy statements seem to come late.
Arabs in the territories have Class C - no voting or distribution rights, just an option to buy shares in a future promised spin-off that never happens.

[DGuller]

How about forgetting all these walls/tunnels/bridges, and just have a single secular state with free movement and full citizenship/democratic rights?

Too crazy?

Of course it is.  In the long run, and even in the intermediate run, you cannot have a democracy with a deeply divided populace.  Countries are not just arbitrary geometric figures on a map, they're clusters of people that share a lot more than they differ on.  Democracy doesn't magically make incompatible people figure out how to coexist peacefully.