What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[frunk]

Another issue I have with Greta is that using children is as a general rule not helpful for rational discourse.  It's hard for an adult to get into a debate with a child without looking like a bully, even if the child is saying stupid things.  It steers the debate into "OMG, why are you so mean to the little girl, why are you so scared" direction, which does nothing to resolve the debate.

It really doesn't matter who it is, there will always be criteria for dismissing them.  A scientist with tons of knowledge?  Propagater of the climate change lie.  An experienced politician?  Tons of skeletons plus they voted for/against that one thing.  Random celebrity?  Stay in your lane.

She may not be ideal, but the ideal does not exist.

[DGuller]

Quite frankly, considering the state of current political leadership, being worried about what a 16 year old teen brings to the debate seems like a misplaced concern.

You can worry about more than one thing at a time.  The right wing assault on truth and reason is obviously the gravest of concerns, but letting the standards of discourse slip in your own camp is not helping things.  I'd argue it actually compounds the problem, because it makes it easier for overly moderate to draw false equivalence.

[Oexmelin]

So what is she saying that is so objectionable?

[The Larch]

The rational angle has already been played over and over and it provides diminishing returns. Whoever was willing to listen has done so and acted upon, and it's not enough. Thus, an appeal to emotion has a role to play into at least trying to shame those that have not acted upon changing their ways. I don't think it'll be effective because those that should listen are basically shameless and won't give a damn about her and what she has to say, but that doesn't mean it has to be tried.

We might as well be all emotionless perfectly rational automatons over here, but outside our ivory towers irrationality and appeals to emotion play a role in shaping the world we live on.

[DGuller]

So what is she saying that is so objectionable?

Being a child doing adult things, such as calling out adult politicians, is what's not helpful, because it's abusing protections accorded to children.  It doesn't matter if she goes "I'm playing an adult game, so go ahead and treat me like an adult"; those who disagree will still be unfairly constrained from arguing with her, and those who agree will still be tempted to play the age card on behalf of someone who voluntarily does adult things.

[The Larch]

So what is she saying that is so objectionable?

Being a child doing adult things, such as calling out adult politicians, is what's not helpful, because it's abusing protections accorded to children.  It doesn't matter if she goes "I'm playing an adult game, so go ahead and treat me like an adult"; those who disagree will still be unfairly constrained from arguing with her, and those who agree will still be tempted to play the age card on behalf of someone who voluntarily does adult things.

Why do you assume that politicians have to engage with her and argue her points?

[DGuller]

So what is she saying that is so objectionable?

Being a child doing adult things, such as calling out adult politicians, is what's not helpful, because it's abusing protections accorded to children.  It doesn't matter if she goes "I'm playing an adult game, so go ahead and treat me like an adult"; those who disagree will still be unfairly constrained from arguing with her, and those who agree will still be tempted to play the age card on behalf of someone who voluntarily does adult things.

Why do you assume that politicians have to engage with her and argue her points?

I assume politicians, and any other involved parties, must have the option to engage with her fairly in response.  I'm not sure I get the point of your question.

[citizen k]

Apparently there are renewed calls for impeaching Trump after the Ukraine whistleblower affair. Will it amount to anything?

It might amount to Biden pulling out of the race. 

[Barrister]

Trump tweeted he is going to release the full transcript of his call with Pres. Zelensky of Ukraine tomorrow.

[Habbaku]

So he's going to incriminate himself so heavily that the Republicans will just immediately point to how transparent and honest he's being.

[citizen k]

Habs has already read the transcript.

[Berkut]

Quite frankly, considering the state of current political leadership, being worried about what a 16 year old teen brings to the debate seems like a misplaced concern.

Yeah, I am with Oex on this one.

Symbols are sometimes important. Like all tools they can be misused, or backfire.

But its not like the status quo appears to be working, so how badly can it misfire at this point?

[Oexmelin]

Being a child doing adult things, such as calling out adult politicians, is what's not helpful, because it's abusing protections accorded to children.  It doesn't matter if she goes "I'm playing an adult game, so go ahead and treat me like an adult"; those who disagree will still be unfairly constrained from arguing with her, and those who agree will still be tempted to play the age card on behalf of someone who voluntarily does adult things.

So far, it has neither stopped people from engaging with her, and it has certainly not prevented people from hurling ugly, ugly abuse at her, in their own version of "playing the age card" ("shut up, little girl, adults are talking") rather than, you know, engage with the substance of her call to action.

[Habbaku]

Habs has already read the transcript.

I've read as much of it as Trump has.

[DGuller]

Being a child doing adult things, such as calling out adult politicians, is what's not helpful, because it's abusing protections accorded to children.  It doesn't matter if she goes "I'm playing an adult game, so go ahead and treat me like an adult"; those who disagree will still be unfairly constrained from arguing with her, and those who agree will still be tempted to play the age card on behalf of someone who voluntarily does adult things.

So far, it has neither stopped people from engaging with her, and it has certainly not prevented people from hurling ugly, ugly abuse at her, in their own version of "playing the age card" ("shut up, little girl, adults are talking") rather than, you know, engage with the substance of her call to action.

It didn't stop all the people.  Things that discourage rational discourse don't uniformly shut people up; they disproportionally discourage those who have some rational discourse to offer in the first place.