What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Admiral Yi]

Trump has endorsed Moore, saying 40 years is a long time *and* Moore has completely denied the allegations. 

[Razgovory]

I think you are creating a false duality built on the fact that Bernie's only talking point was his economic philosophy.

I didn't say Bernie founded the faction.

[derspiess]

I'll file that one under "D" for "Duh".  Or "derspeiss".

[derspiess]

I'm coming around to the notion that voters are babies and you need to lie to them.

No way!

[The Minsky Moment]

Maybe not white alabamans specifically, but the Democratic Party has to do better with whites, who made up 71% of voters in 2016.  White voters went for Trump 57% to 37%.

Sure they ran up huge percentages of non-white voters, but that's just too big a disadvantage to come back from.

Romney won white voters 59-39, same margin.

[Barrister]

Maybe not white alabamans specifically, but the Democratic Party has to do better with whites, who made up 71% of voters in 2016.  White voters went for Trump 57% to 37%.

Sure they ran up huge percentages of non-white voters, but that's just too big a disadvantage to come back from.

Romney won white voters 59-39, same margin.

And it worked because Obama is both fantastically charismatic and was the first black president, so pulled non-white voters out at near record rates.

It still sounds like a terrifically dumb strategy though - to give up 20 points in the majority demographic group on the assumption you'll sweep the table with every other demographic group.

Dems don't have to win the white vote - just close the gap somewhat.

[DGuller]

I'm not sure the best strategy for the Democratic Party is necessarily to do what it takes to bring over white Alabamans as a demographic.

Maybe that is not THE strategy, but any kind of strategy has to think of pragmatism first.  Nothing that you accomplish matters if you let fascists take power, because they will undo most of what you've done, and then create more problems for you to fix later.  If the pragmatics strategy means not pushing things on the cultural war issues, then so be it, especially since there is still a lot of good that can be done in other areas.  It's not like being pragmatic means taking and keep power just for the sake of taking and keeping power.

[DGuller]

Particularly given that they don't really seem to care about voting for people who would help them economically.

It's not that they don't care, it's just that cultural issues trump the economic issues.  Cultural issues tend to turn peoples' brains off.

[CountDeMoney]

ISIS gets socially progressive with awareness #StopAutismNow

[garbon]

Particularly given that they don't really seem to care about voting for people who would help them economically.

It's not that they don't care, it's just that cultural issues trump the economic issues.  Cultural issues tend to turn peoples' brains off.

Ah cultural issues like say being concerned whether black people live or die?

[garbon]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/21/donald-trump-roy-moore-sexual-misconduct-allegations

Trump also spoke on growing reports of sexual harassment and misconduct in all sectors of society. Asked what his message was to women at this pivotal moment, the president said: "Women are very special. I think it's a very special time because a lot of things are coming out, and I think that's good for our society, and I think it's very, very good for women. And I'm very happy a lot of these things are coming out, and I'm very happy it's being exposed."

[Razgovory]

Particularly given that they don't really seem to care about voting for people who would help them economically.

It's not that they don't care, it's just that cultural issues trump the economic issues.  Cultural issues tend to turn peoples' brains off.

Ah cultural issues like say being concerned whether black people live or die?

Yeah, like that.

[jimmy olsen]

Maybe not white alabamans specifically, but the Democratic Party has to do better with whites, who made up 71% of voters in 2016.  White voters went for Trump 57% to 37%.

Sure they ran up huge percentages of non-white voters, but that's just too big a disadvantage to come back from.

Romney won white voters 59-39, same margin.

I believe that  further analysis of the '08 and '12 elections have shown that Obama won a higher percentage of white voters than originally thought.

[Valmy]

I usually think of politics from a right of centre perspective, but what the heck it's an interesting thought exercise.

I think the kind of identity politics / raz's "cultural faction" is somewhat akin to social conservatives are to the right.  They're your people.  You need them to win, but tacking too hard in that direction will turn off to many voters.  You have to signal that you're "with" those voters, but spend more of your time pushing middle-class pocketbook issues.  In other words listen to Bill - "It's the economy stupid".

Under normal circumstances this might work but remember the people who catered to normal middle class issues got pulverized in the Republican Party and populist nutcases calling for protectionism and other extremist anti-centrist measures are who won.

I mean the Democrats had the economic centrists and most of their own power base wanted to revolt over it.

I mean sure I love economic centrism but that is not a winner these days. Also I was not aware Hillary was out there beating the identity politics drum, Trump was doing that and it took him to victory.

I think we are out of touch BB, our way of thinking is on the way out. It is not Clintonite triangulation that is going to win the day it is leftwing populism. I hope I am wrong but given how decisively the Republicans rejected pocketbook issues in favor of pandering and populism how can you claim this is a winning plan? Rejecting all economic logic and barking about nationalism and immigrants took the Tories to power in Britain did it not?

Besides at the end of the day the voters pick the winning strategy, not the party. That is what happens in the Primaries. So I see a great socialist tide about to break on me and my wing of the Democratic Party. And, frankly, I think that would bring over far more white voters.

[Valmy]

Ok I guess to be fair to the Tories nationalism and anti-immigration chose them more than the other way around. But hey it is a winning combination.